What ever came of the" backing out" feedback?

[peacemystic]

See Link
viewtopic.php?t=36447

does anyone know if the leaving of neutral or negative feedback for "backing out of a deal" was put into effect or not?

Cheers
Peace

[MagickalMemories]

Per the current rules, if you agree on the details of a trade, shipping, etc, then one party backs out, the other MAY leave an appropriate reference.

It is officially considered a trade once the "details" are ironed out, regardless of whether or not anything was shipped.





If anyone disagrees with this policy... please, save your breath.
It's been argued MANY times on numerous threads and you won't say anything that hasn't been said and countered before.

The bottom line is that the rules are the rules and, if you disagree, you should contact an admin.

(Hopefully, that will keep this thread from sprawling into another discussion of how right or wrong that particular rule it)

Eric

[peacemystic]

Cool,thanks
Cheers
Peace

[nightspawn]

HEY IRONMAN!!!!


Why you asking planning on backing out on our deal or maybe vice versa

any way Joke!!!

[peacemystic]

HEY IRONMAN!!!!


Why you asking planning on backing out on our deal or maybe vice versa

any way Joke!!!

Hell Carl,we have so many deals going on,i wouldn't know which one i was backing out on

Cheers

[Wintersmith]

Hello there,

I posted a question in the other thread, but I may as well post it here as well. I apologize for the double post, but I fear that the other thread is old enough that it may not get a response.

I am trying to get a handle on Bartertown etiquette. I do have one example where I am unclear on the language of "making a deal":

In this example, I am offering $100 worth of models.

Code: Select all

Trader A: Do you still have the models you've offered? I am interested in a couple of them.

Me: Yes, I do. The couple you are interested in are $45

Trader A: What would it cost to ship to my zip code?

Me: $5 to ship. The total would be $50.

Trader C: Hey, I would like to buy the whole lot of models you posted. What would it cost to ship to my zip code?

Me: $15. The total for the whole lot is $115.

Trader C: Great! I'd love to pick them up at that price. Do you take paypal?

Me: I do take paypal. Please send to my email address. So, I take it that we have a deal?

Trader C: We do have a deal.

Trader A: Ok, I like that price. Ship them to my address.

Me: I'm sorry, I made a deal with a different trader.

Trader A: What's the matter with you? We had a deal.

Ok, so Trader A clearly felt that a deal was made. I would not, since I never made the statement that we had a deal. I answered questions about what the price would be, but by simply answering questions I don't feel that I have committed myself to selling to an individual. According to the unwritten Bartertown etiquette, who would be in the right? Did I renege on a deal with Trader A? Or was Trader A making assumptions that he should not have?

[CypherIsGod]

I'm not sure about this one, to be honest. I have copied this from the rules in the Bad Trader Forum. I know they were posted in the older thread, and I would guess you already read through them, but I'll put them here since they are not yet on this thread.

A question that keeps coming up is "What constitutes a trade/purchase/agreement?" This is a good question and I am formally defining it now:

A Bartertown 'Trade' occurs when both parties have agreed to a transaction, be it a purchase (ie buyer-seller) or exhange of items and/or services, and have agreed to the terms of said transaction.
For example. Morlock and I agree to trade his Warmachine Cryx for my Warhammer Fantasy Chaos. We negotiate what we're trading specifically, we negotiate shipping terms, and we negotiate a time-frame for said shipping. Once we agree - and this can be as simple as "you're cool with that?" or as complex as sending a separate email that states the exact terms of everything agreed to along with a request to reply-with-agreement - the Trade is on.
If something unexpected happens, like a family emergency or unexpected deployment, it is the responsibility of the person in question to let the other party know what's happened within a reasonable time frame.

Remember, when it comes to trade negotiations ASSUME NOTHING.

In your case the terms were set, but a response did not come back from him agreeing to your total cost before another person sent you a message to buy the whole lot. As far as the rules say, I do not think you had solidified a trade yet. There was no "handshake", if I can use that term. There was no message from both of you agreeing to the deal yet.

On the other hand, if I was Trader A, I wouldn't be too happy with you, depending on the timeframe we are looking at. If you sent me the message with the total cost and I did not respond within say 24 hours, then I would look at it as I missed the opportunity. If I responded back to you in an hour, and within that time you did the deal with Trader C, I would be upset. We didn't exactly have that "handshake" message, but I did more or less agree to your $45 price and just needed to know the shipping. I would not leave bad feedback because I don't think the rule was broken, but I certainly would never trade with you after that.

We'll see what everyone else thinks.

[MagickalMemories]

You probably should've started your own thread on this.
Don't get me wrong. There's no problem with you posting the question in here... but you'd have gotten more responses if it was a newer thread.


Anyway...

CypherIsGod hit it pretty accurately, I'd say.

Yes. You gave a price. The only thing you were obligated to do, really, was honor that price IF you sold them to that guy, though. Even THEN, it's more of an honor thing than a BTown rule.

He did not commit to buying them and you didn't commit to selling them. You're in the clear (though, like CIG, I can understand his frustration).

Any trader should realize that he may not be the only person a seller/trader is dealing with on a particular item. He should understand that traders will sell to/trade with the fastest response and/or best offer. Just because you DISCUSSED price does not mean you had a deal.

I would suggest a nice PM, apologizing for the confusion and explaining that you didn't know that he didn't realize that you would deal with whomever inquired about the items and came to an agreement first.

Pluss, you sold them as part of a lot -- which is ALWAYS preferable to piece-meal.

I wouldn't get ticked at the guy for being annoyed, if I was you, I'd just try to smooth things out to the best of my ability because you never know when you'll cross paths again in a trade.

Good luck with it.

Eric

[DarkSoul]

OOPS never mind i see the conversation was between 3 people not 2.. very confusing!

[Wintersmith]

DarkSoul, I apologize for any confusion. I probably should have stated that there were three people involved.

CypherIsGod, I can understand being disappointed about missing the deal, regardless of the timeframe. Feeling that we had a deal and being angry that it was broken is confusing to me, and it left me wondering if I had committed an unethical action according to the rules and standards of this community. Reading your message, and the messages left by others, has shown that my decisions were ethical. Doubtless, handling something like this will only help me get some experience in the long run.

Eric, I appreciate that advice about sending a PM. The conversation that I paraphrased here was cut down in the interests of brevity. In reality, I let Trader A know that I had accepted another offer as soon as I had accepted the offer from Trader C, but told him that I would inform him if that offer did not work out for any reason. At this point he responded to me with an angry PM, to which I have not yet responded as I was debating the best way to handle it. I am not angry at all with that Trader, just a bit confused by the reaction I got.

I think what I will have to do is simply append all PM and email messages prior to the deal with the following:

Code: Select all

Thank you for your interest in trading with me. Please note that we have not yet agreed to trade terms, and that neither of us has committed to a trade or purchase at this point. You are free to decline to purchase from me, and I am still accepting offers from others for these items until all trade terms are negotiated and we both explicitly state our agreement to them.

Thank you, everyone, for your responses. They have helped me see my way forward.

[DarkSoul]

Look at it this way.. you seem to have a good sense of right and wrong.. if you think what you did was wrong.. then maybe it was.. its your own conscious you have to live with.. most people know when they do things either right or wrong.. when they don’t we call these people sociopaths.. if you feel this nagging guilt inside yourself.. then maybe you did something wrong.. (at least according to your morals)

on another note.. I don’t see where you did anything wrong. Although i don’t agree with the way things were handled.. maybe you should have informed the traders you have other people interested in the items.. I do that all the time.. some people think I’m using it as a tactic to get them to make a quick decision.. others accept it... either way my conscious is clear.

[MagickalMemories]

At this point he responded to me with an angry PM, to which I have not yet responded as I was debating the best way to handle it. I am not angry at all with that Trader, just a bit confused by the reaction I got.

The best way to handle it is "Well."
Handle it well.
Clearly, you understand his point of view, even if you don't agree with it.
You seem to understand -though disagree- why he felt that way.

So, be polite. Apologize for the confusion. Explain that you didn't see anything as a deal until it was agreed upon by both parties.

PLEASE, do not name the trader.
What is his/her ref score (approximately)?

My guess is that it's fairly low. Most of the people who have been trading a while know how it goes.
... We are ALSO aware of Darksould's dirty, underhanded tricks for getting people to make snap decisions and offer him better trades.

LOL

JK, DS.

While I don't think it's necessary and it's kind of a shame that you feel the need to include it from now on, I think your "Code:" would solve any issues (you could put it in your sig line).

Eric

[Wintersmith]

Clearly, you understand his point of view, even if you don't agree with it.
You seem to understand -though disagree- why he felt that way.

So, be polite. Apologize for the confusion. Explain that you didn't see anything as a deal until it was agreed upon by both parties.

PLEASE, do not name the trader.
What is his/her ref score (approximately)?

I would not dream of naming the Trader. Unless I have a complaint to file in the appropriate forum, I assume anyone sending correspondence to me has a reasonable expectation that their identity and the exact content of the message will remain private.

His score is between 45 and 55, so I don't think it is all that low. It was his score being as high as it is that made me think that I may be doing something wrong. Had his been as low mine, I would have assumed that I was in the right. I know that I can be a bit arrogant like that.

While I don't think it's necessary and it's kind of a shame that you feel the need to include it from now on, I think your "Code:" would solve any issues (you could put it in your sig line).

Fair enough, and coming from you (or Darksoul, or anyone else posting a response in this thread) that statement carries a lot of weight with me. I just hate to think that I may be misleading someone and a disclaimer seemed the most straightforward way of ensuring that. I'll put a toned down variation in my sig for the time being.

Oh, and thank you for the advice. I appreciate it.

[MagickalMemories]

No disrespect to him, but I'm really surprised that someone in that feedback range would have reacted that way.

Regardless... when you email him, just try your best not to burn any bridges. Trust me. I know about burning bridges.
LOL
It can have a larger effect that you'd know.

Eric

[smilbuta]

Does leaving negative feedback apply to a trader who has commited to the trade to ship and then drops off the face of the earth. No pm , no email, no items shipped (no proof of anyways)?

I currently have two trades going where we agreed to all terms shipping and was told Explicitly we are good to go! Then.. nothing. Both traders simply stoped responding to PM's have no emails and did not ship. Im not out anything but it held up my product from being moved to others who were interested.

Last communication from both are at least 2 weeks +

Is negative feedback warrented in this case?

(all records of PM'S have been recorded in case of dispute)