How can GW do this???

[insidius]

I never said they were going out of business.

I get exactly what GW does.

I was merely presenting a hypothetical.

[Datadep5]

Actually you could cut off all 9 of GW's heads.

Since it's publicly traded, it may be possible, however unlikely, that enough people could buy the shares of all different companies to control them.

Like I said, unlikely.

[JohnHwangBT]

GW is NOT going to go out of business. When someone starts the game, they buy from GW!!! You guys are not getting that GW makes more then just models. They do the paint, brushes, tournys, Forgeworld. You cant cut it off at all of its many heads. its like a hydra!

No, *you* aren't getting it.

GW could easily go out of business if they don't have ability to raise capital from investors to grow, while simuntaneously losing market share and profits per share.

When people start the game, they might just as easily buy from a reseller or from someone getting out of the game.

And while GW would love to sell you grossly overpriced paint, brushes, touraments, and resin models, nobody needs it.

[MagickalMemories]

GW is NOT going to go out of business. When someone starts the game, they buy from GW!!! You guys are not getting that GW makes more then just models. They do the paint, brushes, tournys, Forgeworld. You cant cut it off at all of its many heads. its like a hydra!

EF... you show, repetedly, that you know not of which you speak.
If GW does not do something both drastic AND positive, they will go the way of TSR.
They will hit the cr@pper and they will be bought out by another company. Said company will continue the game and, hopefully, do it right.

GW used to be a real behemoth... now, they're more of a beached whale.

As for the rest of their products... paints, brushes & the like are a miniscule part of their profit margin. Additionally, their pricing on them is similar to the models ($10 US for a PAINT BRUSH? Come ON!). Most gamers do NOT buy their supplies from GW. No paint, no primer, no brushes and no glue. They use better quality stuff that they get for a cheaper price. As for dice... almost nobody used GW dice, save scatter dice. Those are a necessity (for 40K, anyway).

As for your Hydra reference... you should look up the mythology of the Hydra. Depending on whether you use "traditional" mythology or certain fantasy mythology, the Hydra either:
A) only grows a certain amount of heads, then dies when they are all removed
B) Grows so many heads that the weight causes them to flop to the ground, immobile, for easy killing.

I think you're right. GW *IS* like a Hydra!

Eric

[JohnHwangBT]

$10 US for a PAINT BRUSH? Come ON!)

Erm, this past summer, I bought 7 brushes at an average price of $10 USD *each*.

Of course, they were all artists Kolinsky Sables ...

So it's not so much about the price, but rather the value you get for your money.

[ohioguy]

Ancient Society wrote: Ohioguy: Isn't it a BT rule that no one can ever agree with me?...

Yeah probably but I'll take the hit for it!!!......

[WillFightForFood]

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[MagickalMemories]

Part of the blame goes to the fact that Games Workshop maintains brick-and-mortar stores. This, in some way, requires that they tightly control the supply lines and pricing. They can't allow their own stores to undercut the corporation in any way and apparently the corporate office requires a high degree of uniformity from stores. So rather than being able to order cheaper, higher quality glue (assuming they could get a supply) they must follow the corporate mandate. Moreover, as the stores are owned by Games Workshop, they cannot sell competing products. If you go into any independent games store you'll find they are supported by a variety of products. If an independent games store were to switch to a single product line they would likely go out of business. It makes one wonder how those stores are supported (are they profitable, unprofitable, subsidized by corporate?). In some ways that makes the increasingly higher prices make some sense in that context.

I don't know that I'd assign BLAME on GW B&M stores. I don't think that is a problem at all.
I think the problem lies in their ALSO trying to compete on the web. They've really hamstrung themselves with the animosity they've created.

As for how the GW sotres are profitable... (no insult intended)... Have you ever been in one? They are very aggressive. Some of that is in a good way (I'd been in the store less than a half dozen times over the span of a year & all the employees knew me by 1st & last name). Other parts... not so good. They know I ONLY play 40K. They know I have no interest in ANY other game and they know that I'm NOT an impulse buyer. I go to buy what I plan on buying & that will be all. Every time I go in, though, I have a second shadow. The problem is taht this shadow insists on telling me how great "X" game is. When I explain that I like 40K for the skirmish style over the rank & file armies of fantasy, they extoll the virtue of skaven & elves (Wood elves, I think... I've ususally tuned them out by then).
That is how they are profitable. they are SO aggressive.

Eric

[mardaddy]

Which is why members here "preach it to the mountain" by pushing Bartertown every chance we get to new players - just gotta hold hands with them & get them past their impulsive desire for "immediate satisfaction" and into the realm of economically realistic thinking.

The age-old axiom is true: "If you ain't part of the solution, (you know the rest)"

[WillFightForFood]

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[Ikarus]

I have a few questions I need answered by anyone =D


Is BW bits shutting down online cart because they were getting stuff directly from GW?


Hypothethically speaking, if lets say.. I know someone who can give me GW stuff, and I am not a real brick and mortar store, and neither do I work for GW,

can I put up a shopping cart and sell things?

I.E. Like Chaosorc.com


So main question, is BW bits going down online wise because of their choice to go big, and get GW direct which puts them at that position?





EDIT: Answered i suppose by this line:

However, if you don't/haven't signed a contract GW has absolutely no legal right to make any demands of you whatsoever, provided you are not violating existing federal, state, or local law by doing what you're doing.

Quite honestly, if BW bits still would continue their store, I was anyways about to jump in to be the third online (2nd being conversionbits.com which went MIA) bits trader with cheaper prices (because I feel that BW bits overprices due to their confidence in bits dominance).
And they didn't even offer good retail prices (compared to what it can be done for).


I just need the go button, making sure I don't get my ass canned by GW either, like BW bits. If I start up an online shopping cart, something like battlewagon-bits, but cheaper on all accounts, bits, boxes, and


getting a shopping cart though, is another thing which I will have to tackle, but nothing a little $$ can't buy.

[Linrandir]

Ikarus...PM me about that shopping cart. We might be able to help.


While I can't give direct legal advice (as I am not a lawyer) I do know enough about the law to not be intimidated by GW Legal letterhead, especially if they're writing from England.

Here's the deal: Once you buy a product, it is yours. You have paid for the right to own it and do with it whatever the hell you want, assuming of course you have not signed a contract stating what you will do with it or are not violating existing federal, state, or local law.

That means if you're a canny bargain hunter - like ChaosOrc - and you know where to look, you can get awesome deals on stuff and then turn it around and sell it.
It doesn't matter that it's GW product. GW can't do a damn thing about what non-contracted buyers do with their stuff once they've paid for it. They certainly can't send the Direct Sales SWAT team out to ChaosOrc's place to reclaim his stock (but that would be sort of funny, bunch of overweight GW gamer types in SWAT gear with little space marine bolters and crap...)

You might get a letter or two from them, but really...they don't have a leg to stand on and they know it. GW only has the legal power over you that you give them.

So...
buy a digital camera.
Talk to me about a shopping cart.
Hit up eBay, store closings, flea markets, conventions, or wherever.
Take pictures of the products you purchased & post those. Don't post the official GW pictures, because that is copyrighted and they can get you for that.
And of course, comply with federal, state, and local laws regarding businesses.

[El Jefe]

GW is NOT going to go out of business. When someone starts the game, they buy from GW!!! You guys are not getting that GW makes more then just models. They do the paint, brushes, tournys, Forgeworld. You cant cut it off at all of its many heads. its like a hydra!

Your the biggest GW fanboy I have ever seen.. If you dont know how many times GW has screwed thier customers over through the years then your a fool.

Fun game, Great mythology/Back story, Awesome models...

Way overpriced!

I use B-Town, Ebay and other Aftermarket places like Battlewagon Bits myself. Oh and I use the War Store or FPR Games, places that offer a discount on bloated overprices stuff from GW.

If go to my local retailer, I use the coupons they send out.

[jmw23]

Does anyone remember GW getting sued by Wargames West a decade or so back? I've tried searching Lexisnexis for the case, but it won't come up, so either it wasn't appealed, or it isn't in the database. It was always my understanding that what GW did, in terms of holding up orders to companies offering a discount, etc., was marginally illegal, but that the small companies they bullied lacked the legal resources to fight back.

I'm also confused how, legally, GW can prevent a company from using a shopping cart system. What legal basis can they use to justify this? Or was that part of the contract signed by those who wish to sell GW products?

[insidius]

Contractual.