This is a small rant about what I subjectively believe to be "bad form" in Bartertown purchasing/trading.
If you make a statement in your trade post that your minis are xx% off retail, please do not hike the price once someone sends you a PM indicating interest. Take the time to make sure your post reflects what you really want or need for the item you are trading. Price hikes during trade negotiation after a price or percentage has been posted (ie: quoted) is "bad form".
If you've made a mistake in a posting, and you receive a PM indicating interest in the item (such as a reasonable offer based on the info in your post), edit the post, then inform the interested party you made a mistake, and that the post has been edited. Everyone makes errors, but trying to hike a price or value through PMs, without editing your initial post, can make a trader feel singled out for price gouging. This is "bad form".
If you receive a PM from a trader interested in your item(s), and you respond with a quote, honourable trading dictates you stick with your quote. All it takes is a little thought to ask for what you want or need in value for your item, before you make your quote. Negotiations can continue if you quote too high for the trader. Trying to raise your item(s) price or trade value after you've made a quote is "bad form". That isn't negotiation, it's price gouging. Your initial quote is the foundation of negotiation. Doing this to an interested trader could possibly make that trader feel targeted for unwarranted price/value hikes just because they showed interest.
This rant was brought about by two purchases I attempted this weekend, where prices were raised after I either made an offer based on the information in the post (minis 50% of retail), or after I was quoted a price via PM. It actually took me thinking through the entire process for it to raise my ire enough to post here.
If there are additive or dissenting opinions, or advice, I openly welcome them.
After-quote price hikes
Moderator: Moderators
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Shirokuma ( 292 )
- Journeyman Trader
- Posts: 287
- Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:12 am
- Location: South-Central Wisconsin
After-quote price hikes
-- Shirokuma
Owe trade references to: No one!
Owed trade references from: AgeofEgos; bradpreston52
Owe trade references to: No one!
Owed trade references from: AgeofEgos; bradpreston52
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ancientsociety ( 842 )
- Millenium Trader
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 2:46 pm
- Location: Chicago, IL
Re: After-quote price hikes
QFTShirokuma wrote:This is a small rant about what I subjectively believe to be "bad form" in Bartertown purchasing/trading.
If you make a statement in your trade post that your minis are xx% off retail, please do not hike the price once someone sends you a PM indicating interest. Take the time to make sure your post reflects what you really want or need for the item you are trading. Price hikes during trade negotiation after a price or percentage has been posted (ie: quoted) is "bad form".
If you've made a mistake in a posting, and you receive a PM indicating interest in the item (such as a reasonable offer based on the info in your post), edit the post, then inform the interested party you made a mistake, and that the post has been edited. Everyone makes errors, but trying to hike a price or value through PMs, without editing your initial post, can make a trader feel singled out for price gouging. This is "bad form".
If you receive a PM from a trader interested in your item(s), and you respond with a quote, honourable trading dictates you stick with your quote. All it takes is a little thought to ask for what you want or need in value for your item, before you make your quote. Negotiations can continue if you quote too high for the trader. Trying to raise your item(s) price or trade value after you've made a quote is "bad form". That isn't negotiation, it's price gouging. Your initial quote is the foundation of negotiation. Doing this to an interested trader could possibly make that trader feel targeted for unwarranted price/value hikes just because they showed interest.
This rant was brought about by two purchases I attempted this weekend, where prices were raised after I either made an offer based on the information in the post (minis 50% of retail), or after I was quoted a price via PM. It actually took me thinking through the entire process for it to raise my ire enough to post here.
If there are additive or dissenting opinions, or advice, I openly welcome them.
Trading Guidelines:
1. Lower rating ships first - even if I am purchasing.
2. If you agree to buy something, you have 72hrs. in which to pay. If payment is not received in 72hrs., I will automatically post a Non-Payment/Backout thread.
3. Refs are left upon positive receipt of goods, NEVER beforehand!
4. I accept Paypal & USPS money orders and charge for shipping AT COST. I make no profit from it.
5. I trade NIB/new models at retail.
1. Lower rating ships first - even if I am purchasing.
2. If you agree to buy something, you have 72hrs. in which to pay. If payment is not received in 72hrs., I will automatically post a Non-Payment/Backout thread.
3. Refs are left upon positive receipt of goods, NEVER beforehand!
4. I accept Paypal & USPS money orders and charge for shipping AT COST. I make no profit from it.
5. I trade NIB/new models at retail.
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starslayer ( 560 )
- Millenium Trader
- Posts: 2410
- Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:27 pm
- Location: Pennsylvania,USA
Its more of someone saying they are selling for half off retail, then trying to sell it for 75% of retail when you PM them to buy it for the price they said.
Someone posts and ad that says they want half of the retail of a ten dollar item. You PM them saying you will give them the five bucks they asked for, they respond they now want $7.50.
His "offer" is what the seller set the price at. The seller could just sell to someone else, but they keep trying to jack up the price its not likely that will work too well.
Someone posts and ad that says they want half of the retail of a ten dollar item. You PM them saying you will give them the five bucks they asked for, they respond they now want $7.50.
His "offer" is what the seller set the price at. The seller could just sell to someone else, but they keep trying to jack up the price its not likely that will work too well.
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JohnHwangBT ( 180 )
- Millenium Trader
- Posts: 1375
- Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:28 am
- Location: SoCal, USA!
It depends on what you mean by a "hike". If someone says "about 30%" off, and some things are more or less, that's OK. Also, there's a usually a difference between sale value and trade value.
For example, I typically sell around 30% off, but I also trade at retail. So I might have some item's priced with a 30% discount, and other items priced only 20% off. If you want to trade, I'll revert to full retail (no discount) for both sides.
Is this unethical? I hope not.
However, if someone offers to sell for $15, and I agree, then $15 is the price. Changing things to ask for $20 later is clearly unethical, and grounds for immediate termination of the deal.
For example, I typically sell around 30% off, but I also trade at retail. So I might have some item's priced with a 30% discount, and other items priced only 20% off. If you want to trade, I'll revert to full retail (no discount) for both sides.
Is this unethical? I hope not.
However, if someone offers to sell for $15, and I agree, then $15 is the price. Changing things to ask for $20 later is clearly unethical, and grounds for immediate termination of the deal.
Feedback as "JohnHwangBT" on Bartertown
Any Negatives or Neutrals? *You* ship first, regardless of rating!
Any Negatives or Neutrals? *You* ship first, regardless of rating!
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starslayer ( 560 )
- Millenium Trader
- Posts: 2410
- Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:27 pm
- Location: Pennsylvania,USA
I agree.JohnHwangBT wrote:However, if someone offers to sell for $15, and I agree, then $15 is the price. Changing things to ask for $20 later is clearly unethical, and grounds for immediate termination of the deal.
BUT.....
If you simply send an offer for $15(its not accepted) and the person states someone has offered a better price or trade,you don't have a leg to stand on IMHO. No one is obligated to sell it to you if you havent made a deal.
On the other hand....
I've had "deals" here and the person simply changed their mind. Were they forced to buy it? No.
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ancientsociety ( 842 )
- Millenium Trader
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 2:46 pm
- Location: Chicago, IL
I agree as well, which is what I believe Shirokuma was trying to get @ (i.e. a trader lists a specific price in the forums but, when PM'ed, asks for more $$).starslayer wrote:I agree.JohnHwangBT wrote:However, if someone offers to sell for $15, and I agree, then $15 is the price. Changing things to ask for $20 later is clearly unethical, and grounds for immediate termination of the deal.
Trading Guidelines:
1. Lower rating ships first - even if I am purchasing.
2. If you agree to buy something, you have 72hrs. in which to pay. If payment is not received in 72hrs., I will automatically post a Non-Payment/Backout thread.
3. Refs are left upon positive receipt of goods, NEVER beforehand!
4. I accept Paypal & USPS money orders and charge for shipping AT COST. I make no profit from it.
5. I trade NIB/new models at retail.
1. Lower rating ships first - even if I am purchasing.
2. If you agree to buy something, you have 72hrs. in which to pay. If payment is not received in 72hrs., I will automatically post a Non-Payment/Backout thread.
3. Refs are left upon positive receipt of goods, NEVER beforehand!
4. I accept Paypal & USPS money orders and charge for shipping AT COST. I make no profit from it.
5. I trade NIB/new models at retail.
-
Shirokuma ( 292 )
- Journeyman Trader
- Posts: 287
- Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:12 am
- Location: South-Central Wisconsin
Yes, that was one of my points.ancientsociety wrote:I agree as well, which is what I believe Shirokuma was trying to get @ (i.e. a trader lists a specific price in the forums but, when PM'ed, asks for more $$).starslayer wrote:I agree.JohnHwangBT wrote:However, if someone offers to sell for $15, and I agree, then $15 is the price. Changing things to ask for $20 later is clearly unethical, and grounds for immediate termination of the deal.
-- Shirokuma
Owe trade references to: No one!
Owed trade references from: AgeofEgos; bradpreston52
Owe trade references to: No one!
Owed trade references from: AgeofEgos; bradpreston52
-
MagickalMemories ( 832 )
- Lord Logorrheic!
- Posts: 16741
- Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:38 pm
- Location: St. Louis, MO - USA
Let me TELL you what...
If I responded to a thread that had a SPECIFIC quote, and he tried to change the quote, he'd get a polite but angry (and lengthy) response from me about trade etiquette, ending in a withdrawal of my interest.
He would also make his way swiftly to my AVOID list.
That being said, if the extra was added to cover shipping costs... that is an acceptable price increase, IMO.
I may not LIKE it but, then again, when I send my inquiry for a trade I almost ALWAYS ask if the prices include shipping, if that part wasn't specifically mentioned.
Eric
If I responded to a thread that had a SPECIFIC quote, and he tried to change the quote, he'd get a polite but angry (and lengthy) response from me about trade etiquette, ending in a withdrawal of my interest.
He would also make his way swiftly to my AVOID list.
That being said, if the extra was added to cover shipping costs... that is an acceptable price increase, IMO.
I may not LIKE it but, then again, when I send my inquiry for a trade I almost ALWAYS ask if the prices include shipping, if that part wasn't specifically mentioned.
Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.
Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.
I think what this situation needs is some imagination.
"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell
Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.
Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.
I think what this situation needs is some imagination.
"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell
Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.
Another point
The other thing I have seen is adding money after an agreed upon price to cover paypal fees. I'm sorry, but you elect to use paypal. you bear the cost. If that is an issue with you, then either raise your posted price or accept other payment means. I had an issue where I mailed a few things and just grabbed stamps off of my wife's desk. I did not realize, and the stamps did not list a monetary amount, but they were older stamps and were not full postage. I had mailed postal money orders, and was able to get them reissued. The money orders themselves cost less than a dollar.
I also had two trades where someone agreed to an offer, and sent me a PM stating ok, $xx amount, shipped, here's my email. When I replied the next day, asking if I could mail a postal money order instead, I was told they had gotten a better offer. Not sure where that stands, but I know I have also contacted a few people about possible trades, but I took to loong to find the items they were seeking (all my 40k and WHFB stuff is currently packed in boxes, either in the crawl space or garage, as my basement is now a kids playroom/paradise and dad has only a smallsmallsmall corner for his stuff).
I also had two trades where someone agreed to an offer, and sent me a PM stating ok, $xx amount, shipped, here's my email. When I replied the next day, asking if I could mail a postal money order instead, I was told they had gotten a better offer. Not sure where that stands, but I know I have also contacted a few people about possible trades, but I took to loong to find the items they were seeking (all my 40k and WHFB stuff is currently packed in boxes, either in the crawl space or garage, as my basement is now a kids playroom/paradise and dad has only a smallsmallsmall corner for his stuff).