GW product Images, items and legality.

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Ikarus ( 46 )
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GW product Images, items and legality.

Post by Ikarus »

For my technology/business class I am needed to produce both an information website project (heh just simple html site) and a very basic page with a built in shopping cart. I then decided to pick something of my interest, and that is Tabletop gaming.

I essentially need to have some WH40k products and some other GW products to 'sell' and post on my project website. I want to know if anyone knows the fine lines if any of this is possible:

--The site will already have a disclaimer and state that all IP belongs to GW, not official and all that good stuff.

1-Using the Direct image from their online store to put as a 'picture' or product to sell.
2-Using a picture of the box for use of selling.

Would any of the two above be okay?


Another Question:
T-shirts, Clothes, Tatoos and the Like

As always, we cannot allow third parties to obtain money from our intellectual property.

This effectively means that you would either have to buy Games Workshop T-shirts or clothes or make them yourself. You would not be able to sell any t-shirts or clothes that you make.

This also means that we cannot allow tattoos as an acceptable use of our IP as a third party necessarily has to perform the "service."
Does this mean we can make our shirt have 40k stuff on it, as long as we do not sell?
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montaa ( 306 )
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Post by montaa »

Copyright law prevents you from benefitting from another's intellectual(sp?) property. Not only can you not sell, but you cannot advirtise your products with another's copywritten material.

Your case would be fine so long as you do not intend to gain anything financial from your website.

The Tshirt idea follows the same logic; you couldnt sell or promote anything using GW's imagery.
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MEDEVL ( 362 )
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Post by MEDEVL »

I'd say just don't give the website address to anybody outside of your class/teacher and it should be fine. You're not REALLY selling anything right?? It really only matters if you want to have an account with GW as far as the store set-up. However they are truly dickish when it somes to protecting "their" IP (which includes Gieger's Aliens, Star Wars scout walkers, Sly Marbo, and the "We'll be back" rules for Necrons/Terminators...but I digress). Again just keep the site relatively secret and don't worry about it too much. If they send you a cease and desist you can take it down. Or you could avoid it all and pick a different company like Reaper or something.
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Post by Zaakath »

Might be easier to just make the disclaimer to have something like this isn't a real store, it's a project. Then let the teacher know it's for legal reasons, and wouldn't normally be there.

That or use some other form of mini game.
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Post by Alkatchoff »

Just contact GW's legal division. No matter how much you read the IP law sections that seem to apply, you never know if your interpretation is the one that the courts are accepting. As such, cover yourself and message them, just to be safe.

Legal@games-workshop.co.uk is the e-mail to check.
MagickalMemories ( 832 )
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Post by MagickalMemories »

This also means that we cannot allow tattoos as an acceptable use of our IP as a third party necessarily has to perform the "service."
Wait a fricking minute... GW is telling me I can't get a tattoo of something in their IP range?
Please. What are they gonna do? Flay the skin from my body? Sue me for having it.

@ss-hats.

Not only that... but the "third party" isn't getting paid for the image, technically... They're getting paid for the service.
Saying that I can't pay someone to tattoo a GW image on me is like saying I can't hire someone to read the rules to me (If I was uber-rich, I would probably do just that... hire a "rules lawyer" to come game with me & sit by, rule books in hand. LOL). They are getting paid for the service they are providing, not for the content.

Now I have to go and get a freaking GW tattoo.

Serious question to follow...
Anyone have any decent images to suggest? Preferably something that can be done with ONLY black ink & isn't stupid looking? I'm taking my son to get his (belated) 18th BDay gift (ink) and am planning on getting one of my own, anyway. If I can find something I like, I just might flip one :orc_two_bird: at the GW corporate machine!

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Ikarus ( 46 )
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Post by Ikarus »

Okay i'll hand you guys more information and lets see if i can apply >.>.


1. This is going to be for one of my major projects in this class.

2. This might be entered in as a contest for business club to display ones ability to setup a shop (created by a highschooler)

3. They are going to check if that I of course the judges will not contact GW and ask 'hey is this legal?'.

If I show them a reasonable way that the images of the products i fictionally 'sell' have some sort of claim or proper documentation (reason)

They will actually check for copyright laws,

So would putting the Official GW disclaimer AND say:
Licensed names, images and logos are copyright © their respective companies.
You think it would pass?




With that being said,

Would something on terms of
Chaosorc.com (image of blisters)
battle-wagonbits (image of the box sets)
http://www.hillcity-comics.com/ (images same as GW online store)

be going against the IP Policy? (Sorry if you own any of those places)





As far as shirts, If I put up a shirt for my forums, and hand them out freely, and it has some 40k stuff is that violation?
Last edited by Ikarus on Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sgt_Centurious ( 170 )
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Post by Sgt_Centurious »

MagickalMemories wrote:
This also means that we cannot allow tattoos as an acceptable use of our IP as a third party necessarily has to perform the "service."
Wait a fricking minute... GW is telling me I can't get a tattoo of something in their IP range?
Please. What are they gonna do? Flay the skin from my body? Sue me for having it.

@ss-hats.

Not only that... but the "third party" isn't getting paid for the image, technically... They're getting paid for the service.
Saying that I can't pay someone to tattoo a GW image on me is like saying I can't hire someone to read the rules to me (If I was uber-rich, I would probably do just that... hire a "rules lawyer" to come game with me & sit by, rule books in hand. LOL). They are getting paid for the service they are providing, not for the content.

Now I have to go and get a freaking GW tattoo.

Serious question to follow...
Anyone have any decent images to suggest? Preferably something that can be done with ONLY black ink & isn't stupid looking? I'm taking my son to get his (belated) 18th BDay gift (ink) and am planning on getting one of my own, anyway. If I can find something I like, I just might flip one :orc_two_bird: at the GW corporate machine!

Eric

Hi Eric,
Here's one of my tattoos:

http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sgt_ce ... 5e3re2.jpg

At the time, I was a GW Outrider and recently graduated Nursing school so I combined the Imperial Eagle with the Caduceus. The Space Marine Apothecary has a more abstract version on his armour.
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NuWishA ( 60 )
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Post by NuWishA »

You can use pictures of products to sell, they only won't let you in the US because they are trying to cut out all internet sales. Something they can't even do in the rest of the world.


Make your site, the worst they can do is not supply you, which makes little difference since you aren't even actually selling anything.

Lots of stores do it already, even ones in the US.
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Linrandir ( 108 )
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Post by Linrandir »

Bwah hahaha.
:evil: :-D :lol: :evil:

A topic near and dear to my heart.
Yes, I have one. STFU. :lol:

First, a disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and this does not constitute legal advice. :-)
Second: This is gonna be long. VERY long. I am a librarian by trade and this topic requires a fair amount of information transfer.

Here's how this works, despite what the GW legal department will tell you. It is in their interest to present as hard a line as possible since, in the cases where they do try to prosecute copyright infringement, all their replies are public record and can be subpoenaed by the defense.

You MAY NOT use images taken by GW, of GW product. So stealing images off their website is a no-no.
You MAY use images you have taken of GW products, provided the product is not itself an image. See the difference? It's better yet if you actually own the products in question.

Now, regarding certain GW images, like the double-headed eagle...they copied that, so, you know, whatever. Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Eagle

Links for more information on copyright law:
http://www.bartertown.com/disc/viewtopic.php?t=138
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html
http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_a ... index.html
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

Pay careful attention to this, from the Cornell site:
§ 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.
Regarding ChaosOrc. His site is legal for several reasons.
1. He uses no GW-made images of GW products.
2. He's signed no sales agreement with GW, so they have no contractual power over him. I don't know how he gets his GW stuff, but hey. He does and it works.

There is a difference between what the US Code considers legal, ie not violating existing American Law, and what GW wants you to believe (their IP policy, which IS NOT US Law). They want you to not even come close to thinking about stuff that might challenge their claim to "intellectual property," even though copyright law has what's called a "30% rule" where you need to change something to be at least 30% different than the original for it to be not-a-copyright-violation.

Look at the Tyranids...Aliens and Terminator...Necrons. Aliens and Terminators are both Fox properties, and Fox is draconian when it comes to protecting their properties. GW did their homework and made the models close enough to be recognized but far enough away to be distinctive, and therefore immune to a Fox copyright challenge.

So to answer your question...
1. the more disclaimers you can put up the better. I would build in a 'legal information' page with said disclaimers as well as an explanation of the project. Make the link prominent.

2. Regarding the forum T-shirt...this is a funny way for GW to bring up the Personal Use clause of copyright law. I guess someone hammered them on it...which I find funny. Basically, it works like this:
Let's say that I have some Tau Stealth Suits, which I do. Let's say that I think it would be a cool idea to cast them in clear, transparent resin to mimic the Stealth effect - which I do (statement deliberately left ambiguous).
Am I violating copyright? ONLY IF I SELL THEM. Okay, to be really technical I'd have to sell them and have the molds in my possession and GW would have to prove that I'd sold them and that I had the molds in my possession.
So, if you've read the GT rules this year they try to make some specious claim that using clear-cast or other resin copies of GW stuff that you made is illegal. Technically, it's not. They don't like it, and they can disallow it, but it's not illegal and if you take said home-made stuff there they cannot seize it from you...cuz that's theft. :lol:

So if you made a T-shirt, and your friend made a T-shirt, and his friend made a T-shirt, and they all happened to look the same and have the same logo on there...yeah, by the letter of the law and what GW said on their website you'd be fine. So would your friend, and his friend. Who made the exact same T-shirt. 8)
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Post by joseofsa »

(If I was uber-rich, I would probably do just that... hire a "rules lawyer" to come game with me & sit by, rule books in hand. LOL).

Eric
FN Hilarious :lol:
those gw guys have a god complex or somthing
we should all get a gw tattoo and send them the pics
that would be very funny
except when they flay us... faying=bad
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Post by Kitsunae »

MagickalMemories wrote:

Now I have to go and get a freaking GW tattoo.

Serious question to follow...
Anyone have any decent images to suggest? Preferably something that can be done with ONLY black ink & isn't stupid looking? I'm taking my son to get his (belated) 18th BDay gift (ink) and am planning on getting one of my own, anyway. If I can find something I like, I just might flip one :orc_two_bird: at the GW corporate machine!

Eric
What army do you play?

I was consdering the DW symbol of a while but decided against it. I was going to have it done in red ink, lol.

I am also drawing up a design for a guy in another forum for a chaos tat.

If you want, lemmie know and maybe I can think of something. All those years working/hanging out in a tattoo shop can help occasionally, lol!
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