Question about protocol...

[Gunslinger]

So when does something go from a bad reference to a bad trader?

Let's say you agree to sell something to someone and they e-mail and say the money order was mailed. You e-mail them a few days later and tell them no money order yet. No biggie, just updating them. They say look for it tomorrow (Saturday) or Monday. The following Thursday you hear from them after you send another e-mail and they tell you they didn't even mail the money order till Monday evening. So they lied in last week's e-mail.

At this point, assuming the Money Order arrives and is legit, I would say complete the sale, mail the figs, and just leave bad feedback for poor or miscommunication.

But what about if the Money Order never shows? Is this considered a bad trader? I mean I didn't lose anything, but I may have lost out on sales or trades because they told me they wanted the stuff and I took it off the list. And this has been in the works since before Christmas.

Just wondering...

[ekister]

So here's how I would react in this scenario.

Trade was agreed upon - one party did not come through - this is a bad trade, thus a bad trader report could be reported. I personally wouldn't leave negative feedback, as no transaction actually occured. One was agreed upon and other potential traders should know about it, but nothing was actually lost by either party. Every trader should check the bad trader section of Bartertown before making a trade with any trader.

Trade was agreed upon - one party hems and haws around, but the money order arrives for the purchase - this is most likely is a neutral transaction. Time is the deal here - 7-12 days, still good feedback, life gets in the way sometimes. Anything longer than 12-14 days and you are warranted to leave neutral feedback. Of course, there needs to be communication through this process.

I, personally, think negative feedback should be used for misleading ads to condition of models, really crappy packing, outright lies about what is being traded for what. I would not use negative feedback to ding someone on shipping time. Again that's my opinion.

[fibonacci]

I agree with EK, though I am not sure that the rules have yet been altered to allow a BTR in the case of a broken deal (with no physical loss). That was a topic of discussion for quite some time, but last I heard it was still being considered.

Late = Neutral, unless extenuating circumstances exist.

ps, I define late as postmarked a week or more later than agreed (I specify the postmark, as no one can control how long the shipper takes).

[MagickalMemories]

I have to disagree. A broken AGREEMENT is a broken TRADE... ESPECIALLY when there are lies involved, as there clearly are in this case.
In my opinion, a negative IS warranted. Had they emailed you and told you an emergence came up (or the like) that would be different, but that is NOT what happened here.

The BTR rules have been changed to cover just this scenario.

I'm not making ANY accusitions about this trader, mind you. That being said...

This is a common set up for a scammer. They tell you they mailed the money order... a few weeks go by, and they start complaining about not receiving their stuff... Maybe they mention that they feel like you ripped them off... Eventualy, their pleas get to you and you send their stuff... In part to shut them up, in part because -deep down - you really WANT to believe that they're honest and sent your payment and partially because you're a little afraid of receiving a negative reference from them and appearing as a bad trader yourself. After all, you're at a 10, right now. A negative reference would put you down to zero AND make people wonder about your honesty.

This has happened here before. There are one or two posts in the Bad trader thread about it.

Leaving the negative reference would be a potential service to bartertown as, if it doesn't work on YOU, it MIGHT work on the next trader... your negative reference could alert that next person to a potential pattern and send up a warning flag for them.

That is, of course, my opinion and you KNOW what those are like.


Eric

[Gunslinger]

Well the Money Order finally arrived today, although the Money Order was dated and the letter post marked the 9th, the day after he said he mailed it the second time.

I will be holding his package for a few days until I ensure the Money Order clears and is legit. I informed him as such when I got his last e-mail.

I think I will leave neutral feedback at best, assuming everything goes ok from here on out. Luckily I demand the use of USPS Priority with Delivery Confirmation, so I don't have to worry about a scam on the back end.

Thanks...

[kturock]

you should also accept only usps postal money orders. then you don't havve to worry about them clearing.
they are bought with cash and are the safest to use. they can be cashed at any post office in the US.

[Gunslinger]

Thanks Kturock...

Yeah I learned about these from a buddy who works at a bank after this all developed. In the future that is my plan if Pay Pal isn't an option.

[ancientsociety]

What ekister and kturock said....

[MEDEVL]

I have to disagree with the exclusive use of USPS money orders. With my the only reason I'll even send MOs is because I get them free at my bank. If they cost me extra (and I assume they aren;t free at the PO) then I wouldn't use them. Honestly I think my personal check should be good enough, but I understand some people simply refuse to take them for whatever reason. Anyway I don't want to go of topic, but bank MOs should be fine if a check isn't IMHO.

[kturock]

i won't accept your personal check. [nothing persona] i have to wait up to 2 weeks for it to clear. if it bounces, i get charged a fee.
usps mo is good as cash, instantly. i can cash it as i ship your package.

bank MO's can be forged. usps MO's can be forged.
usps MO's are protected by usps. if you get a conterfeit, usps repays you. do banks? do the banks investigate who made and passed the fake mo? how about the convience store down the road? if the MO is lost or stolen, who reimburses you? will you get it back from the bank or store clerk?
if your bank Mo is destoyed in the mail, will the bank replace it? for free?

usps MO's are cashed instantly at all usps locations. no account required. no holding time to 'wait for it to clear'. it's like a bearer bond. instant cash anywhere in the US. get a bank MO cashed instantly. with no fee or hold time. even from the bank that sold it. especially without an account.

banks don't like usps mo's. why? because usps isn't part of the banking system. banks don't make any $$ while waiting for the mo to clear. even though they actually clear in hours or minutes, they make you wait for up to 10 business days, that 14 real days or more.
usps makes $$ off the mo's, but the banks don't. they're not happy.

banks can't get you mo's for anywhere in the world. usps can.

medevl, didn't you say you work for a bank? is that why you get them for free? [not trying to start anything, i recall someone here in another post said they work for the banking industry.] no bank in my area, gives free mo's.

[MEDEVL]

No I don't wark for a bank, I just have a type of account that gives a certain amount of them for free each month. I guess my bottom line is that if a seller want a MO than that costs me money (for him to feel safe) and that shouldn't be paid by me. Since I get them free (US Bank by the way) it's only the hassle of going in to buy and it's a block away from the PO so I'll do it. In my mind there's another discussion that needs to take place about why checks are essentially useless today (if they're as bad as you make them out to be). I've never written or gotten a bad one in 30+ years so I guess I'm just not educated on the subject...

[kturock]

no, you just don't live in a state where check fraud is as bad as it is here.
theres other things in kentucty that aren't as bad as south florida either. but your torandos make up for it.

here, it costs at least $25 if you get/write a check that bounces. they se no difference between them.
also, seeing banking is big business, there's nothing free.