Help w/ Bad Deal (long)

kbolster12345 · Post by **kbolster12345** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:47 pm

I need some people's opinions on a situation that I am facing. I am looking for people's honest opinions of how they would handle this situation. Thank you in advance.

Quick overview to bring people up to date. I traded a High Elf army to have an Ogre Army painted for me. To save on shipping I shipped both armies at the same time. Needless to say the project was not finished and due to private issues the painter backed out of the deal. He sent back the Ogre Army but did not send the High Elves. Now he claims that he can't find the High Elf army and is offering $150 instead. An list of the lost items can be found in the emails below.

IMO this is not nearly enough money to replace the value of the lost figures. Here is a list of the lost army and our latest volley of emails...

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From: Ken Ott [mailto:ken@darkfallsstudio.com]
Sent: Thu 1/4/2007 4:06 AM
To: Kevin Bolster
Subject: Hey Kevin

Hey Kevin,

I've seen BT down most of the last two days for me getting to it. So I'm
not sure how else to get at you but email.
I've not located your High Elves, I'm awaiting responses from 2 trades
to see if they got mixed up in there.
As of right now I'm planning on sending you 150$ on the 18th of Jan.
unless I open up another box somewhere in the house when I clean up the
last of my wives stuff and it's there....doubtful now, but 100-150$
seemed fair, you can tell me if its' not and we can work on it?

-Ken
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My Response
Ken,

Well before we agree to anything how did you come up with $150? That seems a bit low.

Kevin

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From: Ken Ott [mailto:ken@darkfallsstudio.com]
Sent: Thu 1/4/2007 11:36 PM
To: Kevin Bolster
Subject: RE: Hey Kevin

I went to my LGS that deals exclusively with GW and asked them to price
out the list they actually quoted it at only 80$ I felt that was low and
looked at budget and felt 150$ was fair price for the older version of
the models. If you felt that they are worth more than I will be open to
listening and working something out.

-Ken

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My Response Sent to him this morning 1/5/2007

Ken,

The way I see it is that if your store can replace the items for $80 then please replace the army and send it to me. I will even pay for shipping. Otherwise please see my point of view below.

For me to replace what you lost it would cost well over $450 retail. *Please see the list that includes current prices to replace what YOU lost.* I would like to point out that the 37 current edition bowmen are worth more than your LGS's estimation alone. I have noted the OOP items and I am willing to discount their price. I think 40% is resonable. I will include the 40% discount price at the between the * in the list below. I did estimate the cost of the LE Standard based on the asking prices of other LE standard Bearers. So that point is debatable. Even with discounted prices for the OOP stuff I still get a totall over $370.

1 Lord on Griffon $45 (oop) *$27*
Elf Hero White Lion $12 (oop) *$7.2*
Elf Hero $12 (oop) *7.2*
LE Standard Bearer $40
24 Spearmen $52.5
37 Bowmen $81

12 Swordsmen of Hoth $50
8 silver hlems $35
2 Metal Bolt Throwers $40 (oop) *$24*
1 Chariot $30
7 5th ed Shadow Warriors $28 (oop) *16.8*

Grand Total: $370 and change

Lormax · Post by **Lormax** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:09 pm

Looks like it's being handled well

ancientsociety · Post by **ancientsociety** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:15 pm

Who "prices out" A WH ARMY @ $80!? No WH army I've ever seen costs less than $150-200. I play Confrontation and $80 is barely enough for a good "army"!

And how does someone just "lose" an army that size? Does this guy live in that warehouse @ the end of Indiana Jones?

IMO, This guy's a bad trader. You agreed to "pay him" (with the HE army) for his painting services. He failed to complete said service, effectively breaking your deal, "loses" the "payment", and then refuses to refund the full market value. Even taking into consideration depreciation of the minis, $150 (less than 1/2 of retail) is still far from fair.

File a BTR, leave this guy a bad ref, and forward all this dude's personal info and correspondence to the Admins.

kbolster12345 · Post by **kbolster12345** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:51 pm

ancientsociety wrote:Who "prices out" A WH ARMY @ $80!? No WH army I've ever seen costs less than $150-200. I play Confrontation and $80 is barely enough for a good "army"!

And how does someone just "lose" an army that size? Does this guy live in that warehouse @ the end of Indiana Jones?

IMO, This guy's a bad trader. You agreed to "pay him" (with the HE army) for his painting services. He failed to complete said service, effectively breaking your deal, "loses" the "payment", and then refuses to refund the full market value. Even taking into consideration depreciation of the minis, $150 (less than 1/2 of retail) is still far from fair.

File a BTR, leave this guy a bad ref, and forward all this dude's personal info and correspondence to the Admins.

Well communication is still open so I don't think a bad trader is warranted untill he offers a final solution that is unacceptable. However bringing in an adminstrator to help negotiate an acceptable solution is a good idea.

( 108 ) · Post by **Linrandir** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:25 pm

Ask and ye shall receive.

Since communication is still open, I would hold off on the negative feedback but you could document the situation in a Bad Trader Report on the off chance that something goes very very very wrong.

Also, I would ask for the LGS' quote in writing on store letterhead. Have them fax it to you and then counter-quote from your local game store or even the GW online catalog.

If both parties request mediation, I can arrange a private forum. Let me know.

Lin.

ancientsociety · Post by **ancientsociety** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:40 pm

kbolster12345 wrote:Well communication is still open so I don't think a bad trader is warranted untill he offers a final solution that is unacceptable.

Doh! Totally missed that part!

kbolster12345 · Post by **kbolster12345** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:45 pm

I will send a message to Ken and ask him to contact you.

darkfalls · Post by **darkfalls** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:54 pm

Hey,

No worries on the bad feedback, prior to this I've already made my formal forum apology for this deal. And feel even worse that the other part was lost.

I can stop by the LGS tonight to see about getting their quote, and I stress their quote on the models and fax it to Kevin or scan it in tonight.

What I do want is to get amends made and the deal closed, I don't mind the bad feedback because it is a terrible trade. I've done excellent trades all of 2006 and one bad strike with bad timing in life isn't the end of my bt experience, and I know the ramifications for the bad feedback will impact future trades if I seek any other trades out. I think the people I've dealt with here will know I will keep all communcation lines open with multiple work and personal emails and I think I PM'd Kevin my work and cell #'s if not no worries on sending them again.

If 370$ is the value new, then honestly I feel a "used" price does need to be put on them since they were older versions, primed, and only a few were started to paint.....that's why I went to the LGS...I'm sure the new GW prices are more than a used model will be. I don't want to cheat Kevin at all.

-Ken

bluetablepainting · Post by **bluetablepainting** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:30 am

Regardless of what condition they were in, if you were to go to court, the decision would be based on what it would cost to replace the items, as I understand it.

A court, in that instance, wouldn't deduct a certain amount for older models or because an online retailer can get them at a reduced price, likely.

IMO, the value of these is negotiable, considering the nature of the items. I think the value on the OOP items that the OP put is fair. Additionally, I'd deduct 30% of the retail value of the new stuff (to be kind to a guy who obviously seems to be TRYING to make things right and not actually scamming) because there are businesses online that will order you those items (TheDropZone, for example) at a 30% discount.

Everything above is subject to the fact that it is just my opinion.

Eric

The Drop Zone · Post by **The Drop Zone** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:09 am

i dont know how this will be recieved but if you decide to replace the minis with new stock ill offer you the stuff at cost you pay for the shipping

hate to see something get lost lord knows i have had to deal with my own share of problems but if i can help you guys fix this and make people happy ill do it for the cause

Robert

darkfalls · Post by **darkfalls** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:12 am

The Drop Zone wrote:i dont know how this will be recieved but if you decide to replace the minis with new stock ill offer you the stuff at cost you pay for the shipping

hate to see something get lost lord knows i have had to deal with my own share of problems but if i can help you guys fix this and make people happy ill do it for the cause

Robert

Robert thank you, if this agreeable with Kevin. Let's get the list that Kevin posted and the price PM or emailed to me. I get paid again on the 18th where I'll have free cash to do something with as far as replacing and we can wrap up there.

Again if this is not an agreeable term for Kevin or if there or other objections with the community to this then again as always I'm open to them.

Thanks again for all the open communication on this topic.

-Ken

The Drop Zone · Post by **The Drop Zone** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:19 am

no problem i have the list ill check on it and get back to you on this by no later than monday

if you have any issues with it or anyone does just let me know
Robert

kbolster12345 · Post by **kbolster12345** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:31 pm

Dropzone that is a very nice offer and is agreeable to me. How can you ask for more than replacing what was lost?

The Drop Zone · Post by **The Drop Zone** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:50 pm

can you guys get me part numbers for the specific items i might be able to get most if not all of this

im calling in a favor from a close friend part numbers would make it easier
Thanks
Robert

flagg07 · Post by **flagg07** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:25 am

Drop Zone never fails to impress me.