Need Help with a Bad Trade Reference

Ironhide · Post by **Ironhide** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:11 am

Okay Bartertowners, all my trades have been good until now. Igman3977 gave me a bad reference. Below is all of the e-mails we sent. Please read and tell me what you think should be done. My trade rating was 14 before this happened and his was 8.

Emails begin

From: Ironhide ( -6 )
To: igman3977
Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:18 pm
Subject: Warmachine for BFG
I'm interested in the Charger, Thunderhead, Lord Commander Stryker,
and Captain Victoria Haley (Alternate Pose).

I have BFG Space Marine and Imperial ships. Four battleships ( Emperor, Retribution, Apocalyse, and Emperor in Oberon configuration) all primed w/ bases, 1 SM Battlebarge converted slightly (can send pic if wanted) primed with base, 4 Hunter escorts (primed), 3 Nova escorts (primed), 3 Gladius escorts (primed), 4 Dauntlesses (2 painted, 2 unpainted), 4 Strike cruisers (2 painted, 2 primed, 2 w/ bases, 2 without bases but can supply replacements), also have Firestorm and Sword escorts (some painted and all primed w/ bases). I also have some cruisers (assembled in different configurations, some painted, all primed, w/ bases).

See anything you like?
------------------------------------

From: igman3977 ( 10 )
To: Ironhide
Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:28 pm
Subject: Re: Warmachine for BFG
Actually,everything except the Imperial cruisers. Want all Space marine items, and all Imperial battleships and escorts!
Let me know what all you want.
And can I get Pics of the marine conversion?
--------------------------------

From: Ironhide ( -6 )
To: igman3977
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:05 pm
Subject: Re: Warmachine for BFG
Here's pics of all the models.

SM Strike Cruisers - the one painted is missing a back tail fin

Dauntless Cruisers

Battleships - couldn't find the Oberon, the Emperor uses a Retribution Hull and CSM Bridge piece

Escorts - 6 Firestorms, 3 Cobras

SM Escorts - 8 Hunters, 3 Novas, 3 Gladius

SM Battlebarge - slight conversion (top view)

SM Battlebarge - slight conversion (side view)

Hope this helps!

I can't get on the BT Trading Boards, could you send a list of the Warmachine minis you have? Thanks!

- Will
-----------------------------------

From: igman3977 ( 10 )
To: Ironhide
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:33 pm
Subject: Re: Warmachine for BFG
Unfortunatly, my only list was posted on bartertown.
Did bartertown change?
I got your post. maybe you'll get mine and you'll have better luck finding than I can.
Will remain in contact as much as possable.
my email is:
igman3977@yahoo.com
yours?
-------------------------------------

From: Ironhide ( -6 )
To: igman3977
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:51 pm
Subject: Re: Warmachine for BFG
Did you have a unit of Stormblade or Sword Knights listed? Also, how many Longgunners did you have? Do have any Trenchers?

1 Charger
1 Thunderhead
1 Lord Commander Stryker
1 Captain Victoria Haley (Alternate Pose)
Stormblades or Sword Knights unit
Longgunners unit
and Trenchers (if you have any, if not the Journey Warcasters)

For everything in the pics I sent you?
-------------------------------------------------

From: igman3977 ( 10 )
To: Ironhide
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:14 pm
Subject: Re: Warmachine for BFG
I have 18 longunners left.
It was 10 man squad of sword knights.
Tokens are part of the warcasters that you go with.
Going off memory.
At work right now. Let me Find a list or try and get back to you tonight.
do you want to continue on the message board like this or email?
-------------------------------------------------

From: Ironhide ( -6 )
To: igman3977
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:11 am
Subject: Re: Warmachine for BFG
Message board is fine.
-------------------------------------------------

From: igman3977 ( 10 )
To: Ironhide
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:39 am
Subject: Re: Warmachine for BFG
Ironhide,
Here is the list of items that I currantly have.
I would like all of yur BFg items shown in pics.
If you would be so kind as to list out everything that you have and what you would like for them, I would appreciate it.
Don't worry about describing condition, i saw that, just what everything is and quantity.
I don't remember if i said it or not, but I would like to trade the warcaster tokens with the warcasters as they would do me no good without them.
I am eager to trade with you ASAP. I will be leaving town for a few weeks on Tuesday and won't be able to send but for the next few days.
Let me know how you would like to handle who ships first. I know we are close in our ratings and would prefer sending at same time.
Let me know.

the list:

All models, unless otherwise noted, are bare metal, assembled and based.

Haves:
Cygnar:
1 Charger
1 Lancer
1 Thunderhead
1 Defender
1 Ironclad
10 Sword Knights 2 unassembled
6 Stormsmiths; 3 unassembled
18 Longgunners
1 Trencher chainguns
2 Journeyman Warcasters; 1 is the Warmachine Miniature, 1 is the Iron Kingdoms Mini.
Major Victoria Haley; unassembled
Lord Commander Stryker
Captain Victoria Haley (Alternate Pose)
Lt. Allister Caine
Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane
Commander Coleman Stryker (box set version)

Mercs.:
1 Talon
1 Vanguard
1 Ghordson Driller
3 Grundback Gunners
Reinholdt - Gobber Speculator
Ashlynn D'Else
Gorten Grundback
Captain Sam Machorne and 7 various Devil Dogs

I have the Gale Force 9 Token sets for;
Cygnar troop Set
Lt. Allister Caine
Commander COleman Stryker
Journeyman Warcaster
Lord Commander Coleman Stryker
Major Victoria Haley
Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane
Gorten Grundback
Ashlynn D'Else
Merc. troop set

Please note that I will not trade just the tokens by themselves, they will come with the warcaster they belong to. Seperating them does me no good. Remember this when figuring trade deals.

Gale Force 9 Cygnar & Merc. Dice Sets and Tins

I have the cygnar colored card set along with all the original cards. the cards have been put into sleeves, inside hard cases so that they may be easily written on with dry erase markers.
Please note that I will not sell just the set of cards. This notice is more just to let you know that everything will have color cards.
---------------------------------------------

From: Ironhide ( -6 )
To: igman3977
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:55 pm
Subject: Re: Warmachine for BFG
1 Charger
1 Lancer
1 Thunderhead
1 Ironclad
10 Sword Knights 2 unassembled
18 Longgunners
1 Lord Commander Stryker
1 Captain Victoria Haley (Alternate Pose)
1 Lt. Allister Caine
1 Commander Coleman Stryker (box set version)
Appropriate tokens

FOR

4 SM Strike Cruisers
4 Dauntless Lt. Cruisers
3 Battleships - Retribution, Apocalypse, Emperor
6 Firestorm Escorts
3 Cobras Escorts
8 SM Hunter Escorts
3 SM Nova Escorts
3 SM Gladius Escorts
1 SM Battlebarge

I don't mind shipping simultaneously as long as Delivery Confirmation is used and we exchange phone numbers. I always use delivery confirmation unless the individual lives outside the USA.

Can ship out tomorrow if everything is to your liking.

My address is:
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
-----------------------------------------------

From: igman3977 ( 10 )
To: Ironhide
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:06 pm
Subject: Re: Warmachine for BFG
SOunds good.
Just want to let you know.
The lancer and charger were both pinned.
When I was pinning them however, I punched throught the body parts.
i believe that there is three spots between the two that I did this on. On one head, and two of the arms (one arm on each.) I can't remember exact details other than that it is of my opinion that thes can easily be fixed with a little green stuff. I just never went throught he trouble to fix them.
Otherwise, if you still want to trade, my address is;

XXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXX

I won't be able to get these out until Monday.
Just let me know that you still want to trade and I will get them ready and out.
-------------------------------------------

From: Ironhide ( -6 )
To: igman3977
Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:38 am
Subject: Re: Warmachine for BFG
Yeah, I still want to trade. Monday is okay by me.
--------------------------------------------

From: Ironhide ( -6 )
To: igman3977
Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:55 pm
Subject: Re: Warmachine for BFG
I'll be sending your minis out tomorrow.

My phone number is XXX-XXX-XXXX. If I don't pick up leave a voice message and I'll get right back to you ASAP.
--------------------------------------------

From: igman3977 ( 10 )
To: Ironhide
Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:13 am
Subject: Re: Warmachine for BFG
Just got back from Post office.
Shipped priority, insured for $250, confirmation number;
0305 1720 0001 3464 7993.
And hey, looks like you got a bonus!
Thought that I had posted having a non-epic haley token set, didn't have one, so added a chain gunner in it's place.
Turns out I never even posted having had one!
well your luck.
Will give feedback as soon as finished and I return on 14th!

If you call me, just leave a message, it's a cell number and if I can will get back to you also, asap.

Brandon
---------------------------------------------

From: Ironhide ( -6 )
To: igman3977
Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:35 am
Subject: Re: Warmachine for BFG
Your minis have been shipped. Confirmation number is 03051720000037860673.

Saw that I had three Falchion Escorts lying around so added them to the lot. They are assembled, unbased, unprimed. Also added extra bases just in case any got broken in shipping.

---------------------------------------------

From: igman3977 ( 10 )
To: Ironhide
Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:13 pm
Subject: Re: Warmachine for BFG
Hah, we both gave extras!
-----------------------------------------------

From: Ironhide ( -6 )
To: igman3977
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:59 pm
Subject: Re: Warmachine for BFG
Recieved you package. Will leave feedback.
------------------------------------------------

From: Ironhide ( -6 )
To: igman3977
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:15 pm
Subject: Re: Warmachine for BFG
I was going through all the bits for the Thunderhead and realized I had two right legs and one right arm, but no left arm. You wouldn't happen to have the left arm would you. If not, do you have the small slip of paper saying who packed it and where you got it from? That way I can email PP for a replacement. If not, that's okay.
----------------------------------------------------

From: igman3977 ( 10 )
To: Ironhide
Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:13 am
Subject: Re: Warmachine for BFG
NO. I don't have the paper or arm. I opened, looked through it and put it back in the bubble.
Just opened your package.
must say that i a very dismayed at packing. All large ships broke. majority of stands broke. I don't even know if all the peices are here.
And correct me i'm wrong, those aren't even games workshop space marine escorts, they are other companies that you "used as!!"
NOT HAPPY!
---------------------------------------------------

From: igman3977 ( 10 )
To: Ironhide
Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:18 am
Subject: A New Reference has been added for you

A Bad reference has been Added for you by: igman3977
----------------------------------------------------

From: igman3977 ( 10 )
To: Ironhide
Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:19 am
Subject: A New Reference has been added for you

A Bad reference has been Added for you by: igman3977
---------------------------------------------------

From: Ironhide ( -6 )
To: igman3977
Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:24 pm
Subject: Re: Warmachine for BFG
Those are GW SM Escorts. Here's a picture from UK Gamesday to prove it. Forgeworld makes different models of the SM escorts.

That was the best packing job I could do on such short notice. I sent extra bases just in case some broke in shipping. Some of the models were not fully assembled to begin with, as you saw in the pictures I sent. If you don't like the models you can send them back or we can come up with something else. However, since you jumped the gun and gave me a bad rating, I'm loath to do either.

Emails end

Do you think the bad reference was justified?

jagavahn · Post by **jagavahn** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:35 am

It's a bit odd that you weren't given an oppertunity to "correct" the trade. While this eventually may have warrented a negative reference, I do think he jumped the gun a bit.

ancientsociety · Post by **ancientsociety** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:53 am

Igman sounds VERY fishy. You were not given a chance to remedy the situation and he failed to provide proof of damage (I always take a pic and email it to my other trader if something is wrong). Also, what's up with the "this isn't GW" comment??? Only GW makes Gothic looking fleet scale stuff.

If anything, you should be the one leaving a bad/neutral ref since he did not include a full mini as listed (arms and leg missing) and his reply was very terse.

Email him, ask him if you can remedy the situation, and contact Lin or the mods. The only way someone can leave a bad ref is if they were stiffed (something's missing, major broken pieces [you did include extra bases, so this shouldn't apply], etc.)

starslayer · Post by **starslayer** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:21 am

Baloney.
The guys a jerk.
He gave you no chance to correct the error.He didn't even provide a pic/proof they were damaged.
I could understand/expect some flying bases being broken, they are fragile, but can be fixed.

Sure looked like a GW SM battle barge to me!!

Why did you get TWO negative refs for ONE trade???

Maybell1582 · Post by **Maybell1582** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:25 am

I have a question why did he give 2 negative references? I dont think thats Fair. Also can anyone point a link to how the ITL rating system works or something that explains it? Also is their a link to the rules on when to leave feedback and what justifies feed back? Thanks a lot.

jagavahn · Post by **jagavahn** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:37 am

Maybell1582 wrote:I have a question why did he give 2 negative references? I dont think thats Fair. Also can anyone point a link to how the ITL rating system works or something that explains it? Also is their a link to the rules on when to leave feedback and what justifies feed back? Thanks a lot.

There is a little info on the reference system here

viewtopic.php?t=20121&highlight=feedback

Essentially it goes

Good reference = 2 points
Neutral = 1 point
Bad = -10 points

**I feel that feedback should be left as soon as you receive as soon as you receive your part of the deal(if it's good) or after there is some resolution(or lack of) if you are not satisfied.

**I dpn't always practice this as I am both lazy and absent minded, so if I owe you a reference. Pm me with the details

Ironhide · Post by **Ironhide** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:12 pm

I will contact Linradr on this. I did not leave him a bad or neutral trade ref because all the models were there and in good condition. In fact, once I got what he sent I left a good trade ref.

The fact that an arm was missing is no biggie since PP has a good replacement system. Which I will be making use of.

I'm currently awaiting his reply from my last e-mail.

( 34 ) · Post by **Morlock-Bloodletter** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:26 pm

AND he doubled the bad references.

That is ITL Intimidation IIRC.

Ironhide · Post by **Ironhide** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:38 am

He responded to my e-mail. I sent a reply asking for a picture of the broken parts.

( 832 ) · Post by **MagickalMemories** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:30 am

The doubled bad ref COULD have been an accident. Click the button twice & it can happen.

WAS it an accident? I can't say... But, regardless of if it is likely, it is possible.

I think the ref was too hasty. I'm sure they'll be MANGLED in the picture.

Your response ("Best I could do...") leads me to think that you KNEW your packing was less than appropriate which would justify a neutral on his part, in the end. Nothing personal, IH. I like ya... but you know me & my honesty. <G> Pesky morals.

I think you werre hosed a bitt to hastily on the ref but, as he is obviously new, it might have been a newbie error.

You should POLITELY ask him to visit this thread and POLITELY take part in the conversation.

Eric

Ironhide · Post by **Ironhide** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:38 am

I'm still talking to him and he did say he didn't mean to give two bad refs. I shipped my package the each model wrapped in tissue paper and used newspaper to fill in the empty space so the models don't move too much in shipment. He shipped his models in a box with army transport trays. His way is better, but I just don't have the money to go buying an army transport tray each time I ship some models.

How do you you package your models? Is there a standard way of packaging models for shipping?

kturock · Post by **kturock** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:12 pm

bubble wrap. stryofoam peanuts. ziplock bags filled with air.
a cheap way to get styrofaom is to buy a cooler, like you take to the beach or on a picnic. they're under $2 and you can cut or break them up into small pieces.

you used the 2 worst ways to package. newspaper will colapse into a smaller mass with time, weight and humidity.
tissue paper is great, if you want to keep glass from getting scratched.

i swear. i should write a permanent post for adam to post on how to wrap and cheap ways to do it.
20 years in usps. 3.5 years working the sales window, professionally trained by usps in the defunct, pack-n-send program. 100+ items packaged, 0 broken or scratched.

Ironhide · Post by **Ironhide** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:04 pm

Okay, thanks for the ideas. Never heard of the ziploc-airbag method.

kturock · Post by **kturock** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:39 pm

really? B&N, sharper image... hmm who else.. i know use it. you can buy bags pre-filled with air.. but ziplocks are alot cheaper.