Question about a trade - did I misunderstand?

[Brian Khazad]

I recently completed a purchase on BT with an established trader. Part of the purchase was for a number of OOP metal Space Marine scouts who were described as mint bare metal. Nothing was mentioned about any pieces being missing or the models being anything less than complete. When I received the models, they were missing their bases. Not a huge deal to me as the transaction had been perfect and enjoyable up to that point. I did send him a message asking about the bases, and the response that I received could be best described as irate - he was extremely pissed off at me that I was making such an issue over "WORTHLESS bases" and that he's never had anyone whine about bases before.

The bases themselves aren't a huge deal to me, the main thing is that I'm trying to learn from it and see if I screwed up in my assumptions. I realize I should have asked for clarification during the negotiations, but am I off base thinking that something described as "mint" would imply that it includes all of the parts - including the bases?

Could use some input on this. I feel like I'm getting ranted at for being the bad guy, but it doesn't feel like my expectation was unreasonable.

-BK

[3eland]

Unless stated by your trading partner, it is assumed that all parts (including the base) is included with a miniature. Same with cards when it comes to Warmahordes - unless specified, all models should have cards. Note this does not include sprues/extra bits unless stated since a lot of the time only the actual model itself is being traded.

So no your expectation is not unreasonable. A "mint" model should include everything that the model originally came with.

Ryan

[MagickalMemories]

Here is the deal... In the end, you (and 3elans). Are right. A base is an essential part of a usable model. To exclude it is to make the model unusable.

Now, that said... We're the models advertised as having been opened? Was there anything indicating that they were not still in the package? I ask because you can take this as a learning experience... Anything not still in the original packing is worth asking about the details on. Not that you should HAVE to, mind you. Some people just don't have the same criteria for what is worth mentioning.myou know?

Lastly... Even if you were at fault for presuming the bases were included, and you asked as politely as you say, there is no good reason for the reaction you got.

Eric

[Brian Khazad]

@MM: the offer specifically listed the scouts as "200+ Metal Scouts in various conditions including 100 +/- mint bare metal". I asked for 10 of the scouts that were mint bare metal. I assumed from that, that the models weren't NIB but that all parts were there. As you said, I'll take it as a learning experience and ask for clarification next time. He went ahead and sent bases - but the

Thank you for your input, gentlemen. I just wanted to be sure that I wasn't missing something.

-BK.

[MagickalMemories]

"Mint" means just that. Mint.
You don't buy a "Mint condition" book and get it without the dust jacket. Right?
Should've had the bases included.

Eric

[s_o_r_r_o_w]

Well, I would suggest that you refer to (use) the following:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=135933


For my own part, mint is not necessarily the same as complete. Mint in Blister is different from Mint; Mint to me doesn't necessarily include the bases. I have a Rubbermaid full of bases, so I don't care--but if you do care, you should ask.

[Brian Khazad]

So Sorrow, I gotta ask..... if Mint is defined this way:

Mint - Better than new. Collector quality.

Then how can something that is "better than new" and "Collector quality" be missing pieces and still live up to that tag? I mean, I've never known anything that was "Collector Quality" that maintained it's value if pieces or parts were missing. And I certainly wouldn't consider something missing parts to be better than new. "Awesome Corvette. Yup, it's better than new - ignore the fact that it has no tires."

[s_o_r_r_o_w]

If you look closely--or at least closer--you'll see that Mint describes books.

In your Corvette analogy, however, it's not the tires people buy a Corvette for, nor the sparkplugs. These sorts of common, easily replaceable, cheap parts are not a big deal.

On BT, we've decided that Complete means exactly what it says, whereas Like New or New condition may not, depending.

Bases do border on "worthless", in that buying replacement bases is something like $0.05 or so each. I personally would never raise a stink about it--or even mention it, frankly, so long as I got the things I actually cared about--you know, the figs.

The Corvette arrived. Put in your own washer fluid and drive happy.

YMMV.

I'd be curious about an exact quote on this extremely pissed off message. Just report it, and we, your friendly neighbourhood Mod staff, will take a quick peek. Members here are expected to play nice.

[kturock]

Sorry I have to disagree. New means complete. So using the Corvette analogy, it came without a steering wheel. Yes relatively cheap versus the cost of the car, but unusable until replaced.

[s_o_r_r_o_w]

Sorry I have to disagree. New means complete. So using the Corvette analogy, it came without a steering wheel. Yes relatively cheap versus the cost of the car, but unusable until replaced.

You can disagree, but it won't help you.

NIS - New, In Shrinkwrap - Never opened, original manufacturer packing.
NIB - New, In Box (or Blister) - Might have been opened. ALL parts, bases and Instructions present.
NOS - New, On Sprue - Out of package, no part removed from sprue. Might not have instructions or bases.

Look--on Bartertown, we expect the seller to describe all defects, so by a strict, textualist interpretation, the seller should have included bases. That's the law of the land.

I think there's some ambiguity arising on Mint, because that's a question of condition of the fig. If it was an arm or leg missing, then it wouldn't be Mint, I agree. But bases are trivial, easily replaceable, and of such low value that it's hard to imagine their impact on Mint.

My personal position is that whinging about bases is petty.

My official staff position is that if there were no bases, the seller should say so. Not because bases are important, but because the rule is designed to cover the widest possible ground for the greatest possible benefit.

In this case, the seller immediately provided bases, while complaining that it was a penny-ante complaint.

[kturock]

Then it's not mint because it's complete. Let GW start selling them without bases and wait for the complaints. A mint figure includes the base. You might only value the bases at 5 cents, but buy them shipped for that price.

[pretre]

Well, I would suggest that you refer to (use) the following:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=135933


For my own part, mint is not necessarily the same as complete. Mint in Blister is different from Mint; Mint to me doesn't necessarily include the bases. I have a Rubbermaid full of bases, so I don't care--but if you do care, you should ask.

"Mint - Better than new. Collector quality."

Better than new would mean that I'm getting something better than what I get from GW. That would include bases.

You also quoted this:

NOS - New, On Sprue - Out of package, no part removed from sprue. Might not have instructions or bases.

The buyer didn't get NOS; he got mint, so this doesn't count.

[s_o_r_r_o_w]

Stop quoting Mint at me.

In the trade terms list, MINT is under BOOKS.

Specifically, the idea of MINT is that it is ABOVE the quality of the mass-produced new books. Frequently, you will find minor scuffs etc from shelfwear on NEW books. MINT books are of superior quality. That's why that descriptive term is there.

The SELLER created ambiguity by using an INCORRECT term of reference to describe his items. The BUYER failed to get clarification. This is probably where the majority of minor trade conflicts arise.

Having at this point reviewed the SELLER's actual, original correspondence, I see this:

mint condition NOS

To me this describes sprues that are in pristine condition. Bases aren't on those sprues.

NOS =/= Complete.

That's it, that's all.

[pretre]

Having at this point reviewed the SELLER's actual, original correspondence, I see this:

mint condition NOS

To me this describes sprues that are in pristine condition. Bases aren't on those sprues.

NOS =/= Complete.

That's it, that's all.

"NOS - New, On Sprue - Out of package, no part removed from sprue. Might not have instructions or bases."

Might. Up to the seller to clarify that.

[kturock]

Bases come on sprues. So NOS must include bases.