The mind of a scammer

[faol]

I taste terrible I'm all skin and bones and I bite back

[npd_bigdaddy]

Will-...you sound like you're trying to preach anarchy. You have to at least TRY to maintain rule of law.

Also, you're absolutely wrong about the lack of "bad people". There are people of willfullly, habitually do wrong to others and they are bad people, plain and simple. To an extent, many laws define right and wrong arbitrarily, but others were defined by God a lot longer ago, and have ALWAYS been the definition of what is the right thing to do...ie. don't steal, kill, etc. There are certain aspects of morality that are universal (even non-Hebrew/Christian peoples follow those sorts of rules) and they pretty clearly define truly good and bad people, despite what you seem to think.

You seem to like to rip on modern psychology...whatever, I'm not a psychologist so I don't take it personally. But don't back your self up with philosophical arguments...they are ALL matters of opinion, with their meaning in the eyes of the beholder.

-Nathan

Well I've learned a long time ago not to try and debate someone who believes that he is a philosophical or psychological expert, or atleast well versed in the field, because they want to overanalyze everything.......

Sometimes getting wrapped up in all that stuff you can't see the forest through the trees.

There ARE inherantly good people and inherantly bad people, pure and simple. Most things in life ARE black and white, you either do something, or you don't. It's people that make things into shades of gray, and especially the psychologists that want to believe that every action has some sort of deep rooted social meaning or reaction to being beaten by your grandfather with a hickory stick when you were 3.........

Atleast on one hand we agree, the criminal justice system is a joke, pure and simple. It is designed, once again, by a group of left winged liberal lawyers, chock full of loopholes and escape clauses. Rather than take responsibility for one's actions, and paying the price, ie, like larceny, we want to dehumanize the crime, and say that it's not the criminal's fault, it's that he's had a bad upbringing, been molested by an uncle, been beaten by his grandfather and called useless, was born in the ghetto and stealing is all he knows, blah, frigging blah. One excuse after another. I get tired of hearing the "why" he did it, so what, he just DID. Why isn't that good enough anymore???? That's what pisses me off more than anything.

You're not going to change criminals by taking them into a room and talking them to death through therapy. You change criminality by enforcing a code of laws and having strict punishment. Just look at these other cultures that these liberal psychologists consider barbaric, like over in the Middle East, or Asia. How much rampant crime do you see?? Not very much........

When I know if I'm caught stealing, I might lose a hand, or if I'm dealing drugs, I'll be shot in the street, or if I *edit* a woman that I'll be castrated and/or killed, THAT deters crime. Does our society have to be that "brutal"?? Absolutely not, but it has to be tougher than what it is.

Anybody remember that 3 strikes rule for felonies??? What a joke.......do you know how often that's enforced???? Maybe one in a hundred thousand, or even less times. Because we want to make excuses, we want to try to "sympathize" with these lowlife criminals. And they feed on that sympathy and continue to do the same things over and over and over, once again, because they know that it works and they can get away with it.

Think it's any coincidence that all these people on death row or in prison for any length of time find Jesus and want to repent? Again, purely a joke designed to elicit sympathy from liberal governors/legislatures and political activists for clemency or time off for good behavior. I've seen it first hand, I know.........

So with that, I'm off my soap box. I will never be able to change the minds of the psychologists, and they will never be able to change mine. The people that spend time behind all those books and case studies need to spend a little time on the street, spend a little time with the victims, spend a little time in the ER with a bleeding stab wound. THEN and only then, come and tell me about how much you care about why people commit crime...........I don't care, they do it, and need to be punished. Yes, that's simple and black and white, just the way I like it.......

[Ironhide]

I would like to point out the the same god that gave the ten commandments to Moses also said it was all right to own slaves and have more than one wife. There were other things also, I just can't remember them all. Anyone else remember some of those things god said it was all right to do, but would be considered barbaric in our moral society of today?

People might not like the brand of justice countries in the Mid-East use, but it works.

[faol]

:Clapping: something I found out while I was train as a CNA that I find that can be applied in near everything what you learn form books and and how they can be and work in the real world are many time to very different things.

Again you hit a nail on thre head that the "system" does sympathise way to much withthe criminal and thats were the whole product of your environment comes into play but we all have choices so are we choosing to be a product environment

[WillFightForFood]

Deleted Post

[arch_8ngel]

This reminds me of the early days of aviation. Originally pilots guided their planes by sight and feel. When commercial aviation took off there was an imperative to instead of regarding ones' feeling to regard one's aone's instruments. Pilots that had learned on feeling out flying balked at the concept of instrument flying, but in the end it was far more safe to trust the gauges in front of them than their own two eyes.

Off topic...but....all the guys that learned fly by "feeling" ended up dead earlier than they would have preferred. Flying by the seat of your pants only leads to one conclusion.

[faol]

Off topic...but....all the guys that learned fly by "feeling" ended up dead earlier than they would have preferred. Flying by the seat of your pants only leads to one conclusion.

Yup meeting the ground at a high rate of speed :shock:

The World has six billion people gee thats way to many meat bags on one rock...Personally I see the world as a simple place I think it mankind that make things complex.

We have a system of punishment that suppose to change people you cant change anyone who does not want to change. If people liek this using Ticknor as an example he would have to realize that he has a problem. The same with a drug use he or she first need to realize that there is a problem only then can it be fixed and change can occur.

Punishing people to the fullest extent of the law is a good thing that can be relate much in this simple way if I steal this book I'll lose my hand I've already lost two fingers...

this guy was shot becasue he killed a man. Its simple you follow the rules or you face consiquences and sure there are cases were some in mate does turn around and opens up and gets a clue, but there really doesnt seem to be that many, again He had a choice all from the start of thinking of joining a gang to killing another person whether it was a rival gangbanger or some john doe on the street he made his choice and suffered the consiquences of his choice.

Here in the Pittsburgh area we just had a guy who was driving under the influence kill a man and two children (twins) leaving another in the hospital turns out not only was he drinking but taking perscription apin meds (not his) at the same time and failed to secure the wood chipping to his turk properly So because of his choice his failure to follow certain rules and laws some lady has lost 2 children and a husband some child in the hospital as lost a father and brothers and or sisters.

So you tell me because people to fail and choose not to follow the rules and take short cuts scamming, stealing, cheating, killing, what have you tell me why they dont need to be punished with the full extent of the law?

in hopes that they get a clue and change only for them of set free and do it again.

You know humans are nothing more than animals too and in the wild herds and packs can not afford a member causing problems it weakens the pack and the herd as a whole putting everyone at risk.

Just think if the punishment for stealing was you would be taken out to the center of town were a large group of people wait you chuck stones, rocks, and other heavy objects at you would you steal?

[npd_bigdaddy]

I met a man recently that spent 17 years in prison for a gang-related homicide and now he's a professor in a sociology department in New York. He grew up poor in the projects of Chicago with no hope for the future. In prison he was exposed to education, and was able to open his mind to the world that he never knew existed. Was his crime a wrong, sure, but people can change when given the opportunity and the resources.

Have you considered for a second that perhaps punishing every individual to the fullest extent of the law isn't in the best interests of society? You know the laws, think about how many individuals you don't pull over or cite, or arrest on a daily basis that you could.

OK, do you know how many people truely change in prison? What an absolute joke. Like I said, spend some time in a prison working in one and see just how barbaric and uncivilized these waste of human garbage sacks really are instead of meeting one out of a million career convicts that actually "changed" for the better. Give me a frigging break.........what a joke.

I'm sorry, but it's tree hugging eternal optimists like you that are the reason that nobody wants to take responsibility for their actions in today's society because nothing is their fault. It's always someone else's fault but theirs. Let me guess, that child molester sitting in prison, it's not his fault, he can be cured through being taken into a room and talked to because it wasn't his fault that cute little 6 year old girl looked so hot in that sundress.

No, no, no Jeffrey Dahmer wasn't an evil man from birth, he became that way because his social demons told him to *edit*, kill and eat 13 year old Laosian boys for breakfast. It wasn't his fault, his mother must have ignored him when he was a child, right? If someone like you had talked to him early on, maybe we could have "saved" his poor unfortunate soul. Yeah, right.........

Now I'm just curious, did you ever go to school at Berkley, because if not, you sure could get a scholorship there, they love guys like you.

It's not a slam on you personally, I just wish people like you would spend all that wonderful energy actually on a cause that would accomplish something. What you're doing is nothing short of like they say, "throwing good money after bad". It just doesn't, and isn't, going to change a thing.

And you're absolutely right, there are HUNDREDS of people that I could issue a ticket to, summons, arrest, whatever that I choose not to. It's called discretionary enforcement, and I do it every day. There is a huge difference between me not wasting my time giving little nice old ladies tickets for a busted headlight/taillight and Johnny Badass that beats his wife on a weakly basis. But maybe I'll take your approach and rather than arrest Johnny Badass, I'll take him into custody, sit him in the back of my car and talk to him for 4 hours and analyze why he beats his wife and maybe we can come to some sort of epiphany and he will realize magically that what he does is wrong and then I can give him a nice big hug and release him back into society and all will be well with the world.

After that, I'll ride home on my magical unicorn on the Rainbow Expess and kiss my beautiful maiden wife and play with the sprites and pixies that play in my garden made out of pure gold and sunshine......

Erik

[arch_8ngel]

Learn to crap precious gems while you're at it, and I think you're set.

[faol]

And they all lived happily ever after...err something close to it yeah and dont forget to learn to pee gold and sweat silver

Now that Ihad my par with sarcasm, I know some people can change and you can help change some people I've seen it happen a few times, but like I said you truely cant change anyone they have to realzie the problem and change on their own you can open the door but on ly they can walk through. And it seems the odd are not in a favorable light the sad truth why because someone with with little regard for other wants to take the short cut the quick way to easy street.

[MagickalMemories]

After that, I'll ride home on my magical unicorn ... and play with the sprites and pixies that play in my garden ......

But the man in the magical shoes said *I* was the only one he was giving the key to the mystical doorway.

DAMN THAT WALMART!!!!!


On a serious note... I know we're getting a bit passionate here... but let's try to avoid the name calling. We're supposed to be having a CIVILIZED discussion here.

Eric

[WillFightForFood]

Deleted Post

[MagickalMemories]

WFFF... This conversation is not really my thing.
I'm watching it but staying out of it. I don't know enough facts to make an intelligent point I'm mostly opinions on it. I tend to stay out of conversations that I don't have facts on. it's just my "way."
I did, however, want to interject my OPINION on one point... I feel that strongly about it.

We throw away our money RIGHT NOW. In the past thirty years we have increased the number of people incarcerated 6 fold, hold the highest incarceration rate the world is ever known

I'd rather we spent billions of dollars every year on our prison system, paying the guards better (etc.) than the way we spend it now. I'd rather it go to the prison system than to all of the refugee camps, poor, sick & starving people in other countries. I'd rather OUR prisons get it than the citizens of countries that profess openly to have problems with us (i.e. hate us).

Just MY opinion.

Eric

[npd_bigdaddy]

The thing is, you put a bunch of people in 8x10 cells (or in large dormitories) crowded with other violent or nonviolent individuals, deprived of security, liberty, access to anything resembling normal society, what do you think is going to happen? It's a totally unnatural environment for a human to be in. Many people go insane in administrative segregation (although most individuals in prison already have a verifiable mental illness). Put any one of us in the general population in a prison or on lockdown for 23/7 in a concrete and steel box and see how well we do. We'd either get horribly victimized or take up the same behaviors as the other inmates for our own protection. What's more is half of the individuals in prison are there for non-violent drug and property offenses.

Will, you do an excellent job of quoting individuals from your text books and trying to prove a point that our system is broken, but yet you offer no solutions to the problem. Should we just let every non-violent criminal run free, or throw a paintbrush in their hand and tell them to paint, putting that energy into something useful? I really don't get what you're trying to say. Offer up a tangible solution other than, "our system is broken, we have to be understanding, blah, blah, blah"

One person had it right, you are hovering right on the border of anarchy in my opinion, because breaking the law shouldn't have consequences, but rather we should try to stem the lawbreaking at the source before it ever happens. This isn't the movie Minority Report, we can't stop crime before it happens........so unitl then we have to punish it as best we know how.

The thing you still fail to realize is 2 major things. First thing is, and I know this may be a shock to you, but many many inmates actually enjoy being in prison. They get free cable and air conditioning, free laundry service, a workout gym, 3 hots and a cot and all the sex they want. It's better than they had it on the streets. Heck, in the winter time, people look for a reason to get locked up to get a free meal and a warm bed. The days of rock busting, hard time prisons is only a movie memory. Places like that may exist still in some remote part of Texas or Alabama, but that's about it. Prisons for the most part are pretty much a cake walk. You can't leave the grounds, but other than that, it's a Motel 6 with bars on the doors...........

The second thing is that you assume that people WANT to change. Many don't. They enjoy being dirtbags and criminals. I would offer a free education and/or trade to ANY inmate that actually truely wanted it to better himself, and not just to give him something to do inbetween meals and his TV programs. Again, I've seen it first hand. For instance, at the prison I worked at, out of 1000+ inmates, only perhaps 1 percent took advantage of the college program being offered through our local community college. Wouldn't have cost them a penny, and they STILL didn't care. Didn't want it. Being "educated" might ruin their street cred, or their tough guy image, or they just flat out didn't care. Whatever the reason, they didn't want it, so it was eventually phased out by the state after 4 years of constant non-enrollment.

Just like when the Christian groups come to minister to these guys. They could give a hooey about Jesus, they want the free coffee and doughnuts and get a chance to look at some new women other than the correctional officers. Heck, I'd even catch guys jerking off to these nice Christian women that were trying to help them. Yeah, they're great people, they just need rehabilitation..........

So Will, as I said in the beginning, I will never change your opinion and you will never change mine. It's just the way it's destined to be, and we could discuss this until the cows come home. I admire the fact that you have a passion for something, that's more than I can say for a lot of people.

And on that note, I have a World Eaters Land Raider to finish painting...

Erik

[MagickalMemories]

And on that note, I have a World Eaters Land Raider to finish painting...

And, as soon as it is done, you'll go right to the painting forum on the discussion side to post images.
Right?

LOL

Eric