Thoughts on New Tyranids Codex?

[3eland]

Sorry guys, wife wanted a night watching movies so didn't get anything written up lol.

@Spiraling - I think Genestealers are the coolest, creepy-crawlers ever and I have always been a fan of the Space Hulk ones. Having an army themed around true Alien style would be fun, I grew up on the Alien movies and to this day are my favourite Sci-fi films.

One thing you have to remember with Tyranids is to keep a balance between the hunters and killers you can field. Most of the time if you run too many hunters you have a risk of not having the Synapse to keep them in check. Although most hunters have a high Leadership (hence why they do well hunting), I would make sure to have that Synapse there just in case. The list you like are some of the cooler looking bugs and work very well together to create that creepy-crawler, lurking in the shadows feel.

I actually have run what I call a Stalker list before, it consists mainly with many of the models you enjoy actually.

I would take Deathleaper as an HQ without a single doubt in my mind. I played him recently actually and his special rules as an HQ choice alongside his warlord trait was golden. The ability to deep strike anywhere and the fact that even Marines suffer from fear and have to fire Snap Shots at him makes running him in a stalker list that much better. I understand technically Marines are fearless but when they can only fire Snap Shots at him its pretty funny. Plus he has Stealth, which coincidently works alongside Shroud which the Venomthrope can give him. Running around with a natural 4+ cover save is pretty sweet. Only thing that sucks is he is not an Independent Character.. guess GW didn't like the idea of people putting him in a unit of Lictors and having 4 assassin bugs have the ability to only be Snap Shot at lol. Remember Template weapons cannot be used against the Deathleaper either since you cannot Snap Shot a template weapon (and man is it ever helpful).

Grab yourself some Lictors. After their point drop and being able to infiltrate, deep strike or start on the board I knew I needed to grab a couple more. They may not have the cool special rules that Deathleaper has but they are still the coolest looking bugs that make Imperial Guard cry out at night. Remember that they don't scatter when they deep strike now so you can plop them close by in some cover, essentially giving a 3-4+ save (dependant on the terrain you choose). Run them in Broods of 2-3, the killing potential and survivability is greater at those numbers and really cause fear in your opponent, knowing they are lurking on the board ready to tear their soldiers in half.

Raveners are a must if you like fast moving, hard hitting units that can shred Marines with ease. I played a game where 4 Raveners with the Red Horror took on a Tech Marine, the Red Horror gobbled him up (charged so had 6 attacks and with hitting on 3's ended up landing 5 attacks. Asked if he had an invul save, was told no artificer armour doesn't have invul... so I proceeded to eat the Techmarine, servo-suit and all (with the Red Horror you roll to hit first, THEN decide if you want to gobble)! The Ravener brood then proceeded to continue along and assaulted a group of 5 Flamer Marines. My Horror once again proceeded to eat a Marine while my other bugs landed enough hits and wounds to take a second Marine down. The Marines were unable to land any wounds and so the fight went on for a second round where my bugs finally took them down.

While that was happening, another unit of Raveners where in a ruin eating rocket Marines lol. Being Beasts and having a solid statline will always trump over silly genetically enhanced humans.

Back on topic.. Raveners should always be taken with discretion. Their LD sucks and since the average roll on 2 dice is a 7 you will most likely fail your LD roll. Make sure they are supported by Synapse, otherwise they will be eating each other. Remember though the Red Horror acts as an upgrade character and has a decent LD. In the game where the Red Horror kept eating people, they were out of Synapse range for a few rounds and luckily I was able to use his Marine-like LD to keep them going. If they are in combat they don't have to test, so make sure you take their long travel range and get them to their target fast. If you wish to have a solid strike squad take 4+ Raveners and a Red Horror, they alone (by sticking to cover and using terrain wisely) can go from unit to unit eating everything without taking many wounds or casualties. If you equip them with Rending Claws (and I suggest this Biomorph) they can rip through Terminators and Rhinos with ease if the target presents itself as it travels around. I had 3 units of Raveners that game and only one unit died and that was due to my fault placing them in a spot where they were lit up by flamers (the ones I ended up killing with the Red Horror). The other non Red Horror squad received a single wound on a Ravener the entire game while the Red Horror squad had one Ravener down to a wound left and the Red Horror got hit once that was able to cause a wound.

Sorry swayed off topic again... I like Raveners... As the other Elite choice (beside the Lictors) I would definitely take a Brood of 2-3 Venomthropes, position them the max allowed for unit coherency and watch as all your bugs have cover saves that will make your opponent groan with displeasure! Remember though the crappy LD. Venomthropes don't have a cool upgrade character to give them a better LD and so you will be needing Synapse support for sure. They don't even have Fearless so if they test for IB (and they most likely will) you will have a Venomthrope running the wrong way. If you can keep them in check your creepy-crawlers will be able to get to their targets without an issue. Since you don't want to run Warriors however, this may be a little tricky to pull off. If you would be willing to take a single "Alpha" bug like a Tyranid Prime equipped with a Bonesword and Whip or even the Obliterax you could add him to the Brood of Venomthropes as a personal bodyguard. Consider him the Predalien if you will... You know, the Predator that was entrusted with the new generation of Aliens in the really bad sequel of AvsP. Even just exchanging the Devourer for Rending Claws can give him a cool creepy crawler look. Either way, these guys (the Venomthropes) need the Synapse support.

Stealers are sweet. Some people hate it when I refer to them as Stealers but typing Genestealers out is so troublesome and can at times be very hard due to the close proximity of keys as you type it out. Plus they steal genes, so they can be categorized as stealers I'd think.

I find Stealers work well in large numbers and with a Broodlord. Having 22 is a good start! You can only take a max of 20 though. Do not upgrade your Stealers. They will get expensive fast and you will be wondering why on earth you gave them the Toxin Sacs or Scything Talons every time one died. IF you were to upgrade them take the Toxin Sacs though, against Marines it'll be your biggest friend. It'll be about 20% more expensive though.

Trygons fit well with the theme and especially the Mawloc. I usually plop them up near squishy units or annoying vehicles and watch my opponent scream at me from across the table as I eat his infantry. The Mawloc being able to take out full units when it comes in is devastating, especially if you opponent thinks they are safe in the back! I had a Mawloc take out 9 Eldar Bikes and severely wound a Farseer once, then since he didn't kill everything mishapped.. I rolled “Delayed”.. the next turn he wiped a unit of Warp Spiders (think that's what they are called). Fun times... Mawloc is officially on the “OP list” for my friend lol.

You will most likely want to take the Trygon Prime, especially since it has the best Synapse support of bugs that fall under your list. I say do not take it solely for your Venomthropes. Take it for the Raveners if anything. The Trygon should be out hunting with your Raveners.. the combination is deadly. Especially if the Raveners have Rending Claws. The Prime can take relics too which means it could essentially have an 18” Synapse range which should be able to keep two Ravener units in check as you pillage through dead enemy bodies. Or, give it the ability to gain Preferred Enemy after it kills a guy.. this will give it the reroll 1's that will help.

Normal Trygons are cool and work just as well. They are Fearless so if they fail their Marine-like LD they will not be rushing to the home base. I have never had an issue with them performing exceptionally well for their points.

Old One Eye is cool, if you were to run him near the Venomthropes they would have a better chance of not tailing it out of battle. Doesn't really fit the Stalker theme though, it isn't really that creepy crawlery. Still a solid model and fun to run, especially when he is tanking Lasgun shots and regenerating himself lol.

Another unit that you might find fun to run in a themed list is Gargoyles. Think the movie Pitch Black... yeah, replace their Fleshborer with Gaunt Talons or find a suitable alternative to claws and you have one bad ass looking scary as heck bug that will creep the pants off anyone. They can swarm units and do an incredible amount of damage. And they are silly cheap. You could even pretend their shooting attacks is actually acid spit like in Aliens rather than a gun.

That is pretty much all the bugs I would see fitting a themed list for the creepy crawling, lurking in the shadows, stalking their target bugs. In a 1,000 points list I could see myself running something like:

HQ

Deathleaper
Prime with Claws and Hooks (plop into Venomthropes to keep them from running)

TROOPS (to fit all your Stealer models)

Stealers x10 with Broodlord (keep near Venomthropes)

Stealers x10 (Infiltrate or keep near Venomthropes)

ELITES

Lictors x2 (Infiltrate or deep strike into terrain)

Venomthropes x2

FAST

Ravener x4 + Red Horror (either deep strike near Lictor/Death leaper or keep with venomthrope until ready to run off to hunt)




If you want a list that really screams stalker you could do:




HQ

Deathleaper

TROOPS (to fit all your Stealer models)

Stealers x10 with Broodlord (infiltrate into cover)

Stealers x10 (infiltrate into cover)

ELITES

Lictors x3 (infiltrate into cover or deep strike using Deathleapers Pheromone Trail)

FAST

Ravener x5 + Red Horror (deep strike using Lictors/Deathleapers Trail)

HEAVY

Mawloc (this guy will just bombard the juicy units, make sure you pop him back into reserve when possible and back out again when he can... usually he will do a good hit and then the rest of the game go hunting)


If you want to take the Trygon Prime you will want to shoot for 1250 points. Even a normal Trygon at 1000 points or less is a little too expensive if you want enough units on the board. You could always drop the Mawloc and add another 5 Stealers per unit to maximize its survivability.

Also you must remember what opponent you normally play against and the amount of terrain on the board. If you play with those silly ones who have two or three pieces on the board you won't do very well. If you play with the ones that love terrain and LoS blocking structures you will find Stalker lists will run really well. If your opponents have plenty of templates ignore cover attacks you will want to adjust your list for that. Like dropping Stealers to 5 (minimum to hold objectives through infiltrate) and loading up on things that will make them squeal like more Lictors!

Currently I play Kill Team with:

Lictor (leader)

6 Stealers

Broodlord

It's a good team and very hard to kill in combat. We play on ships (very Alien and Space Hulk-like lol) and other heavily terrain boards.

Anyways hope some of that helps, I kind of went off course a bit there but oh well. Remember Synapse! If you want an awesome cover save you need to bring something to keep it there. If you drop the Raveners you can load up on more Stealers. Either way, it is very possible to make lists themed with the creepiest lurking horror of the bug pool and if that's what you like I say go for it!

[Imaginos]

I recently picked up some gaunt talons because I planning to build some gargoyles with them to use in Deadzone. Is it a legal choice to give them talons in 40K with the new codex? If so, I might work my way back into 40k as well (still have a good amount of bugs, that, funny enough, correspond to this creepy crawly style).

[3eland]

No, they come stock with the Fleshborers and cannot take any other weapon biomorph. However, it's your model and your money so I like to express creativity when building, modelling, converting, painting, etc..
No reason they cannot have Talons and like I said, use their shooting attack as an acid spitting lol. If you play with good people I doubt they would say anything to it.

[spiralingcadaver]

Wow, thanks! All of those lists look quite enjoyable to paint! (That's probably 2/3 of the fun for me... though I still don't like my pretty models getting wiped off the board).

Lol, haven't seen the 2nd AvP movie- the first one made me question my childhood, so I'm not touching the 2nd with a 10' pole. If I did a big beastie such as the Prime, I'd probably convert it to be a souped up Broodlord.

Leaning towards the second list just 'cause I'd get to paint a giant beast, but I'll need to look into my options (and what I can score on Bartertown ) before deciding which way to go.


Reason for Old One Eye is the old fluff (don't know if it's still around) of him being from some ancient invasion and reanimated due to regeneration after being frozen for ages- felt thematically close to the Xenomorph/GS feel of them lurking until some hapless crew stumbles across them and then all hell breaking loose. Also, a HQ option other than the Deathleaper if that wasn't a good choice, and since I loved running amok with my old DP so like the idea of a monstrous creature HQ.

Re: gargoyles... really don't like most Tyranid guns (aesthetically), so I'd want to do some heavy converting, which is definitely an option, but I think only if I decide to stick around and do a larger army: I've had too many incomplete conversion projects turn out to be terrible to try to get rid of to start with that...

[3eland]

I forgot to add Shrouded rule states that only a single model of a unit needs to have the rule for the whole unit to have it. This means a single Gaunt or Stealer needs to be within 6" for the entire squad to gain the bonus. Use this to maximize what you can give shrouded (especially with the trio triangle). I have also added this to it's description.

[spiralingcadaver]

Heh, gotta love GW's easily exploitable rules.

[thecage]

Cool summaries. I do like the T-fex. He's the only 2+ save we have.

[starslayer]

How much synapse is enough? Two or three units? More?

[MagickalMemories]

I haven't really looked at the codex, and I expect the answer to be no, but I'm going to ask this anyway:

They didn't happen to return "Hive Node" (I think it was called) to the smaller bug from a couple codices ago. Did they?

Eric

[3eland]

How much synapse is enough? Two or three units? More?

As many as you feel is needed. I played a 1500 list last night consisting of the following:

Deathleaper

Prime
- Sword and Whip
- Flesh Hooks
- Rending Claws

2 Broods of Lictors x3

1 Brood of Venomthropes x2

2 Broods of Stealers x15 with Broodlord each

2 Mawlocs

Deathleaper and Lictors went hunting and not once did I fail a LD test (mind you they have high LD). Only reason I even took the Prime was to bodyguard the Venomthrope and give it Synapse. So really it depends on what you want to bring in your list and how you want to run it. I had a Mawloc come into play turn 2 and only needed a single test before my Prime was in range (I was sweeping around the board and the Mawloc came up on some Scorpions) and the other Mawloc was delayed until turn 4 and only needed to take a single test itself. Both have Marine LD, both passed each time. It's really the low LD models you have to worry about.

I haven't really looked at the codex, and I expect the answer to be no, but I'm going to ask this anyway:

They didn't happen to return "Hive Node" (I think it was called) to the smaller bug from a couple codices ago. Did they?

Eric

No they have not returned, ever since people were "abusing" them in 3rd they have become nothing more than decoration.

[spiralingcadaver]

Source: http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thr ... ned&page=7

Its available now, and It is pretty good if you like lictors and stealers.

Manufactorum Genestealers
The formations allow your genestealers to set up in ruins or unoccupied building within 6" of your enemy, and have hit and run
5 Stealer broods, but may not include additional stealers

Lictor Forest Brood
Lictor Forest brood formation inside forests can infiltrate up to 6" from the enemy, and have the shrouded rule in forest.
This is 5 broods of a single model.

Deathleaper's Assassin Brood
The Deathleaper brood makes anyone within 12" of a model from the brood have -1 LD - this could be pretty massive combined with a few other rules (shadows, Its after me, the horror, Psychic Shriek ect..)
Deathleaper + 5 lictor broods of 1 model

Broodlord's Hunting Pack
Another Broodlord hunting pack formation when it comes from reserves can deploy into any unoccupied building. It can also be deployed in any ruin terrain during setup as long as its 6" away from the enemy.
They also have hunting pack, which when deployed, your formation has preferred enemy against any nominated enemy unit.
3 Stealer broods and 1 must have a brood lord. only a single broodlord allowed.

Gargoyle Bio-Bombs
The gargoyle bomb is 3 units of gargoyles and 3 units of spore mines, and allows the spore mines when ever they start a move action (move, run , charge) within 6" of a gargoyle to move at 6", or no longer half the distance when running or charging.

Overall, there are some decent options to close the gaps and have some threats for your opponent on turn 1. Having all single units of lictors can help to keep them alive, or at least take a lot of firepower to remove them all. Nothing stupidly powerful, although I like the idea of hit and run stealers!

Read more: http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thr ... z2rMskX08r

[3eland]

Wow. There you go Spiraling, even more creepy crawling madness for your theme! I'll be picking it up sometime in the week I'm sure.

[spiralingcadaver]

Yep, I know, right?

Will need to look at them more closely and see how much you're paying (other than flexibility)-- they're highly situational and the Manufactorum and Forest configurations feel in a similar place to the old 3rd edition Catachans, in that I feel like you're likely either paying disproportionately high costs for little, or you've built the list and it feels like you're power gaming...

[3eland]

After reading over the new Dataslate I am impressed. They really brought the creepy crawler feel into the army and the formations look to be very fun! Some of them are situational though, like the Lictor Forest Brood. If there are no forests on the table then it's not going to do very well lol. I like to play with a lot of terrain so I can see good things coming of it.

The Gargoyle Bio-Bomb formation is... interesting. I just don't see myself putting out that many points to make it worth the effort, and moving the "bombs" rids the movement freedom Gargoyles have.

I can see the Manufactorum Genestealers doing some good work, they can essentially circle those pesky sniper teams or heavy weapon teams. Being able to set up within 6" of an enemy model really makes your opponent think.

Lastly the Deathleaper's Assassin brood is cool. They all have Preferred Enemy Character and Independent Character and models within 12" gain a -1 to the LD. This can make some pretty deadly combos with Deathleaper's LD reducing special rule and The Horror Psyker power.

I'll need to do some battles and try out some of these formations, see how well they can work on the table!

[spiralingcadaver]

Well, sounds cool, will need to look at that if/when my genestealers graduate from harassing terminators on a grid.

Speaking of which...