What is the most you'll make available?

[Ironhide]

I would just like to point out that all of this is a moot point. Anyone can fake the info they put in. Who's going to check it? As I said in a previous post...

Why does this matter? Before you trade with someone anyway you should get their real name and address. And if you're still not feeling good about it ask for a contact number and call the person. You can also do a search on White Pages.com to see if the persons address he gave and their actual address are the same. If anything looks odd or out of place have them ship first or just don't do it. It's that simple.

All of this stuff you are talking about is just a security blanket made out of tissue paper. Eventually it will get ripped to shreds. I'm not saying this to be mean or hurt someones feelings. I'm just being honest. If someone wants to scam you they will eventually figure out a way. Be it here or somewhere else. As the old saying goes, "Let the buyer beware."

By the way, I'm the exception to the rule on here. I've been a member since before 2003. Don't believe me? Do a check refs for the last name Norment. You'll see my first trade ref was in 2001. I don't trade much, I don't post much, but I do lurk and recently started to post more often.

[MagickalMemories]

I have to disagree with you whole heartedly.
Tissue paper, it is not.

As long as the traders keep their eyes open, it'll be a big deterrent.

For example, your address shows you to be in Raleigh, NC.
If we are a rranging a trade, and you ask me to ship to Richmond, VA....
Forget it! Expecially not if you are asking ME to ship first... regardless of how long you've been here.

Sure, you can talk about your account getting hacked and someone changing the given address... Yeah. Whatever. It could happen but... It can still be avoided.
If you and I start dealing on a trade, and you want to email me from an address other than wcnorment (at) hotmail (dot) com, I'm going to be suspicious.

Yes. People will always be scammed. There's no way around that.
There ARE steps we can take to avoid it and make it harder for people.

Eric

[orcdom]

yes what he said, plus if they are lying on thier address that is listed, its not to hard to report them to a mod or admin and see about getting them a suspension, so it would shortly be nipped in the budd and the emails and PM's would be the proof if was asked to be shipped elseware.

Steve

[WillFightForFood]

Deleted Post

[MagickalMemories]

Well, I hope you don't take this the wrong way. I mean it with no negativity or "attitude."
Just the straightforward manner I'm known for.

That's the only way you & I would EVER trade... if you sent first. Nothing personal, but I find something immediately suspicious & overly suspect about the degree to which you feel that opinion.

Now, that's just my opinion... and I'd still trade with you. But it would be, as you said, with you shipping first (regardless of rating).

Just my POV.

Eric

[Ironhide]

Exactly, if the traders keep their eyes open.

Instead of adding more info to be displayed, we should have a permanent forum on what to look for when conducting a trade. Kinda how to on how to spot a scammer. A lot of the veteran traders know what to look for, but the newbies don't. I'll bet a lot of people on here are between 12 and 20 who have their eyes on the prize and not on the blatant clues screaming that this guy is going to scam you.

And before someone takes that last part personnally, I'm just generalizing. You can thank your peers for setting that stereotype.

[Ironhide]

What privacy? There is no privacy WillFightForFood. Everyone on BT can click on your trade rating and find out your real name, what state your from, and your e-mail address. With that information it's easy to find out where you live using www.whitepages.com. I'm pretty sure there are other ways also.

[WillFightForFood]

Deleted Post

[Linrandir]

Privacy vs. Access with regards to information is a continual hot topic, moreso in some circles than others but still.

The trade reference rating will always remain public, as will access to the individual trade records. We are open to changing what information goes into those records, but keep in mind that our top priority is promoting the Good traders and exposing the bad traders.

Feel free to wax philosophical about the Light of Truth and all that, but for me it's far simpler: While I appreciate my privacy, I also want people to know that I am honest in my dealings.

[Alsiaie]

Well… I suppose I should give my $0.02. I will be honest and probably blunt. I may even sound like I'm bashing. I do not mean to be rude, but I will not bite my tongue.

Admittedly, I've got something of a unique situation here - not too many can claim 'admin privilege' insofar as being a trusted trader goes, so maybe I can get away with a smartass answer for location. At least until the site policy changes, anyway.

Hah! I can second that. Although I have enough of a rating to send first anyways, being a moderator gives me a little trading boost. However I have worked very hard to earn everyone’s trust. This goes for trading as well. Earning trust among traders and actual individuals is the same.

as for the ebay mention there has been some noobs in the past (not referring to anyone on this thread) but they say well i have this rating and you ought to ship first when i have a over 15 rating here and they have 0. well ratings from Ebay, Warseer and the like dont mean sh!t. this is bartertown and it has a good rating system, it follows now your screen name where before your address and name.

I agree. Even when I had a lower rating, I ignored all references outside bartertown. If I had a 60 rating and the other trader has a low score but 1000 ebay points, either he sent first or no deal.

Steve

Bartertown is at no cost to the traders, just the online stores that operate here. and yes like Lin said it is a tighter community because the typically high ratings here are those that have been members for more than the join date reccomends as well since bartertown has been around for quite a few years and alot of us are still here and support it with whatever way we can.Steve

Yes free…In my opinion, that means NO complaining! But orcdom is right, this is a much tighter community than ebay. Ok lets say someone has a bad trade. You email paypal or ebay and wait three years for a response. Even then, there is nothing they will do. On top of that, places like ebay won’t even accept complaints after so many days of a transaction. Here on bartertown, I could wait 60 days to resolve a dispute. After dealing with the trader personally, I can go to the bad trader forum and start a topic. There I can get full support from actual people and probably others who have traded with this bad individual. No automated emails here. If he is proven guilty, the individual may be permanently banned from bartertown. Best ebay will do is let you post a bad reference. Let me use Tech9 for an example. Take the time to read through the thread about him. A large portion of the community got together to expose this individual. @#$%%^ ebay cant do that @#$%

but with bartertown keeping track of the bad traders and getting involved with other sites like the Privateer press site, Warseer and a few others, we are getting those names spread across the gaming community as much as possible to protect the traders.

Most people have absolutely no clue how much work the moderators and admins do for bartertown. Insidius and Morlock have worked very hard on tracking down people like Jason ticknor. Just the other week, he was spotted with a fresh account on another trading form. On top of all the mods, tons of regular btowners joined in on exposing him to this other community. Our eyes are not focused on bartertown alone. It is our job to make sure bad people from outside sources never make it here and vice versa. I think the moderator group here deserve a thanks from all dedicated bartertown members.

Aaaand here's where I step in again.

All else aside, John, people here take Bartertown ratings more seriously than they do eBay or other website ratings. This is in no small part due to scammers like Jason Ticknor or Steve Jones.
It's a relatively small community, as online communities go, and having people here to verify that one is an honest trader carries more weight than having people elsewhere say the same thing.

Again, that's a generalization - your mileage may vary.

Speaking a little more generally, I'd love to debate the notion of relative feedback value to different online communities. I would say that regardless of the community in question, local feedback is more highly valued than external feedback, though external feedback certainly can be used in establishing local credibility.

This discussion serves as a great example therein, comments about newbies aside.

Well to not sound like a broken record, I have already given my thoughts on local references and the tight community. Keep serving up the truth Lin.

All of this stuff you are talking about is just a security blanket made out of tissue paper. Eventually it will get ripped to shreds. I'm not saying this to be mean or hurt someones feelings. I'm just being honest. If someone wants to scam you they will eventually figure out a way. Be it here or somewhere else. As the old saying goes, "Let the buyer beware."

Wow.. you of all people should know better. Correct me if I’m wrong Lin, bartertown has been around for 11 years. Not once have I read or heard of anyone’s identity being stolen due to our public information. Seriously… Lets say the information is not public. “Hey I want to trade with you. Your offer sounds good. What is your address, I’ll send first.” OOPS hey look a guy now has your address. It is the difference between a mouse click and a few days worth of PMs. Either way you can not hide from giving your location away. If someone wants it that badly, he/she will get it regardless of public or private records. You want my opinion? Whipe your eyes and mouth with that tissue paper. All I see is snot and tears.

By the way, I'm the exception to the rule on here. I've been a member since before 2003. Don't believe me? Do a check refs for the last name Norment. You'll see my first trade ref was in 2001. I don't trade much, I don't post much, but I do lurk and recently started to post more often.

Exception huh? And what rule would that be? Do you think that YOU should be the only one to have private records?? Just because you have a better “Join date?” You sound exactly like every member who has been banned because they told the moderators they should be an exception. THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS. I’ll be honest here. People like you who bitch about everything but yet have very little care in posting and giving to the community PISS ME OFF. Do some more trading and communicating before you start complaining. I hope that tissue is two-ply. I see more snot and tears.

Exactly, if the traders keep their eyes open.

Instead of adding more info to be displayed, we should have a permanent forum on what to look for when conducting a trade. Kinda how to on how to spot a scammer. A lot of the veteran traders know what to look for, but the newbies don't. I'll bet a lot of people on here are between 12 and 20 who have their eyes on the prize and not on the blatant clues screaming that this guy is going to scam you.

Wow again… You clam to be a member since 2003 but yet make this statement? I guess you were right, you don’t post much. Let alone read much. Ever here of the Bad Trader forum? It is where the community gets together and helps individuals solve trade disputes. Look at the issue about Tech9. There are also plenty of in depth stickies about ultra bad traders. Take the time and read them. Then apply common sense. Well if this guy is bad, and he did this and this and this to scam him and her that means other users could do the same. Congratulations, you have learned how to spot a scammer. Again, why don’t you take the time and actually involve yourself with the community.


Wow, my reply is almost all off topic to adam’s original idea. Anyways, the current records now do just fine. I voted for zipcode. However there is one thing that bothers me, but maybe I am just confused.

We're trying to assign locations to people. Right now, if you sell to just outside of Milwaukee, WI, that may not seem bad (other than it was the place I grew up), however it would be good to know that Ticknor lives there and there are 20 (or however many) bad trades which occurred in that area.

TrademasterAdam

Ok so if I get this right, in the future I can search for traders by location. Then the search results will break down to good and bad traders. IMO this is not a good idea. Sure the city I live in is 2+ hours away from ticknor, but we still live in the same state. Last thing I want is someone looking up my location and seeing several bad traders in my area. This gives me a bad name. Granted my references will probably override this thought, but I am speaking in general. Not everyone has a long list of references. I do not think is it fair to brand newer users a “possible” bad trader just because others around him are. You could almost be accusing him/her of aliasing. In my opinion, the references are fine just as is.

[MagickalMemories]

Hey, Alsiaie (which, BTW, looks a LOT like "ie: Alias" <---- Suspicious!)!
Forst of all... Dang. You ranted ther in a couple spots. Huh?

also....


Eeeeeeeew.
That avatar is creepy.


Eric

[orcdom]

good points covered alsiaie, i think the zip code would be good as well, but i will settle for city and state.

and witht he privacy issue, cant someone just start with a post you had made and/or a PM they recieved from you and get your IP address, seems like identity thieves are going to look at a better place than bartertown to steal an identity.

or we can just all get in a circle and scream Privacy and it will all go away.

if your that interested in privacy, i dont think you need to belong to a public forum where i ought to know from the getgo who i am dealing with.

Steve

[Ironhide]

First off Alsiaie, I don't give a damn what info is finally decided upon. I'd be happy with giving my full name and address.

Secondly I was replying to the statement that orcdom made.

john noobs are fine here, input is always welcome, but remember the one with the higher ratings typically have been here for a long time, but also post count matters as a first impression on the discussion areas as well. this is a good community, but the ones who visit the discussion area are typically more opinionated as well, but all intentions are mostly directed to further Bartertown itself. We typically dont try to start flamewars for the sake of some places i have been like R.G.M.W. and i think your the same John Hwang from there (no offence intended) and you know what i mean about the hostilities there. but here we also speak our mind and it usually dont get invilved in a measuring match. just dont be to offensive to posts, most of the time they arent meant to be too sarcastic.

I don't agree with post counts, trade refs counts, or date joined. I personnally think all of it can give the wrong impression.

Thirdly, not every indivividual is going to take the time to go through the Bad Trader forum, and when they do all they will see is what traders to avoid and what to do if a trade goes bad.

Involve myself with the community? I have a life and I don't like to spend all day on the computer responding to post or making posts. I come on Bartertown to see if there is anything I want to trade. After all, that's what it is here for.

[MagickalMemories]

I spend, tops, an hour a day here. I have a life, too... but I take the time to try to give back a little to the community that has given to me.

That being said...

Involve myself with the community? .... I come on Bartertown to see if there is anything I want to trade. After all, that's what it is here for.

This implies to me that Btown is something you USE, not something you intend to TAKE PART IN. It's not something you intend to CONTRIBUTE TO for the BETTERMENT OF ALL.

If that's the case, IMO, your opinion about what should & shouldn't be allowed doesn't really matter.

No offese. I'm not angry at you for feeling that way, and I hope you feel the same...
I'm just sharing an opinion.

Eric

[orcdom]

I don't agree with post counts, trade refs counts, or date joined. I personnally think all of it can give the wrong impression.

Thirdly, not every indivividual is going to take the time to go through the Bad Trader forum, and when they do all they will see is what traders to avoid and what to do if a trade goes bad.

Involve myself with the community? I have a life and I don't like to spend all day on the computer responding to post or making posts. I come on Bartertown to see if there is anything I want to trade. After all, that's what it is here for.

lets get a few things straight

first of all Trade refs have to count, that is proof of successfull or unsuccessfull trades. and is the one thing that has made bartertown strong.

Second of all, time as a member does matter, its called experience on here. reading the various topics, threads and dealings.

third, post count does matter, because if you do take the tiime to participate here in this community and want to help further it along, post count matters because it pertains to threads and discussions such as these, also there is a search function for posts and so on if you would even bother before spouting off. this goes right along with experience from time being on here as well.

fourth, if you (or anyone) dont bother to read the bad trader forums (whatever your excuse is) or at least scan through them for the topics, which if you bothered to do usually has the screen name and or actual name posted in the topic. and if they dont bother to read that forum its thier own fault.

5th - if you dont like to bother with being part of the community and responding to posts, there are a few simple steps to take care of that, there is an unsubscribe link at the bottom of these threads so you wont get email from them, or better yet, just stay away from all of the discussion forums period.

and that leaves more time for "you" to trade and better chances for "you" to get taken. so from someone that dont want to participate in these discussions your blabbing on a few of them right now, and if you stop, it will save you more time for your trading and more time for the rest of us to get the discussions going in a productive manner.

Steve