6th edition anyone else dislike?

[Angel of Death 007]

I have been trying my hardest to get into 6th edition. I have been playing 40k since 4th edition. I have played a few games now with 6th and even did a tournament recently and I am very unimpressed. 5th edition seemed to flow so much easier. There was less rules and the game was actually fun because it was more on actually game play rather than complex rules. Now there are so many new rules that few people seem to know to their full extent. I got several different armies and yet it seems that to be somewhat competitive with certain armies you have to rely on allies.

Perfect example. I play orks and was going to the tournament (my first in 6th edition) last month. I had to implement imperial guard allies to even remotely feel comfy going to the tournament. And granted I really only went for fun anyway and to be able to get some games in. Luckily my LGS isn't overly competitive, even at tournaments, and I had a fun because of the people I played against (though their lists were pretty nasty). The whole time I was playing though I just felt that GW over complexed the game for no apparent reason other than for a new release.

Don't get me wrong I still have fun playing, however, it is not as fun as 5th used to be. Vehicles got weaker with hull points and flyers are all but untouchable... *cough* hell drake *cough* Most of my ork army got nerfed with the changes to kff with the update before 6th, then 6th hammered the crap out of them.

I have tried a few games with guard, csm, and almost wanting to try tau with their re-vamp, but at the end of the day you are still playing the dreaded 6th edition rules.

With the release of 6th, I have actually started to look for alternatives but at my LGS there really are not any. The only other option (aside from Magic and RPG's) is two warmahordes players and two fantasy players. I ended up buying a fantasy army, some malifaux stuff, kings of war, and warmachine stuff only to have it sit on the shelf for lack of anyone who plays it locally.

I would like to hear some other 40k players thoughts?

[pretre]

It's the same with any new edition. Try some more games and get more used to it. If you get a bunch of games down and still don't enjoy it, play 5th with friends or wait for 7th.

[optimusprime14]

I actually like 6th better.

Unlike most people I think Vehicle are still very good, esp anything with AV13+ Glances no longer stop you from doing anything, and really anything thing other than a 6 on the pen die (or a 4 if AP 1) and you are still in the game.

I think alot of the slowness people have is not the fact that there is alot of rules (some of them were streamlined from 5th) but that the rules are slightly different than before.

You don't have to run guard allies (even though you will see alot of people doing that) I know of a really good Ork build in my local area that is tough as nails and is a pure Ork list.

I think the thing for 6th is it changes the way every army played. People have to first get the know the rules for 6th, then they have to figure out how to play their army all over again.

The best thing for 6th is it seems to have stopped the "perfect netlist" that you see. almost anything has a paper to it's rock. Like hell drakes/Cron air? say hello to new Tau See alot of Foot guard behind cover? Say hello to drop pod flamer dreads.

If anything Drop pod armies seem to be the way to go as there is very little risk to mishaps anymore

[Angel of Death 007]

I dunno those helldrakes are nasty, both CSM lists I went up against each have 2. Having nothing with skyfire really hurts. If i didn't have my vendetta in my allies list, I would have had next to no chance of dealing with them and they wipe out two squads a turn pretty much. They vector strike and then have a nasty 360 degree flamer that eats through orks to no end. Even massed loota fire is hard given needing 6's to hit and 6's to pen then they still have an Inv save on top of it. Odds are very low of effectively taking them out and orks don't have much for ranged anti-armor to begin with.

Will agree that armor 13+ seems to be harder to deal with but between kff stuff and hull points a kanwall or dread bash list is all but nerfed which was the primary way I ran my orks. I don't even bother with dreads or kans anymore.

[3eland]

As an avid Nid player, 5th was hard with how tough vehicles used to be, and EVERYONE brought vehicles >.<, although I am not complaining as I wrecked in CC, but the point being each edition has balance in mind (some can say we Nid players are still waiting for it ha ha). Flyers, yes they suck especially since Nids have nothing to help against them (and they can't even man turrets or siege guns that possibly have skyfire) our only defense is a Flyrant with two TL Devourers with Brainleech Worms or rolling skyfire on a mysterious objective lol.

That being said, when I play against my dice rolling buddies (DA, CSM, Eldar, DEldar, Daemons) I tend to still do exceptionally well, I just stay away from flyers best I can and use my Hive Guard to possibly roll 6's to hit ha ha. One game I landed a lucky 6 on a DA flyer, rolled a 6 for damage and a 6 for penetration, this was the turn it had arrived on; I was a happy guy then but he was pretty annoyed. A friend just got Tau with the new codex and he destroyed the DA player so I am not looking forward to pitting my Nids against him but we shall see, every army as a weakness!

I feel scenarios really change the game-play a lot, less going for the kill and more strategic killing. When I play Nids I play aggressive and with the new rules of 6th my Raveners and hormagaunts have gotten better (especially when they fail their leadership test) at getting in and killing things. It's about learning the rules and how they help your army now, like knowing the whole assault grenades thing kind of hurt my Nid's when they charge into or out of terrain, so I plan accordingly.

I say give it some time, it gets better

[3eland]

I dunno those helldrakes are nasty, both CSM lists I went up against each have 2. Having nothing with skyfire really hurts. If i didn't have my vendetta in my allies list, I would have had next to no chance of dealing with them and they wipe out two squads a turn pretty much. They vector strike and then have a nasty 360 degree flamer that eats through orks to no end. Even massed loota fire is hard given needing 6's to hit and 6's to pen then they still have an Inv save on top of it. Odds are very low of effectively taking them out and orks don't have much for ranged anti-armor to begin with.

Will agree that armor 13+ seems to be harder to deal with but between kff stuff and hull points a kanwall or dread bash list is all but nerfed which was the primary way I ran my orks. I don't even bother with dreads or kans anymore.

Bringing 2 Helldrakes is just mean, friendly play I fail to see any reason of doing that to a person. Tournament wise it makes sense, you go to win and you don't make friends doing so (well, that's how most people play now-a-days).

[fitterpete]

I love 6th.I got into 5th at the end after not playing since 2nd.Course I only play among friends with no tourneys.
Helldrakes
This made me kinda laugh as my buddy brought a Helldrake and first time out I shot it down with 2 SM devastators with lascannons(rolled 2 sixes to hit).Lucky I know but it was funny.
Flyers don't bother me just flyer spam.

[kturock]

I left during 3rd, 4th & 5th because it was no longer a futuristic game with guns, but a game that got into HtH combat; and if you had a gun, you got to use it as a club.
WTF? Other than an IG or some Tau armies, everything else was how well to get into HtH.

Vehicles have been nerfed in 6th ed that at least everything can get 'tinged' to death by glances. That's not a tank that's an apc.

Shooting actually matters. Overwatch is back. It needs some work, but...A skroat IG or grot could hit in overwatch as well as a highly trained SM, CSM or Eldar, that makes no sense. [13%]

Flyers are now the new 'vehicles'. [tough things to kill and you have to play for/against.]

Drop pod spam armies still suck and SW are even more cheezy.

Play the odds vs flyers. 1 in 6 will hit it so shoot at it 6 times. I shot 1 down in the 2nd turn. My Havoc squad of 2 ML & 2 LC fired at it for 2 turns. 1 in 8 hots hit it and took it out. [6.6.6. not just the number of the beast]

[jul]

seems to Tau dex is bringing a brake to flyers spams as the broadsides unit can deliver a lot of fire (sky fire + Interceptor + SMS + High yield SMS)

i played a few games with 6th and i do prefer it over 5th. It bringd back a lot of good rules from previous editions.

J.

[TheOgreTyrant]

seems to Tau dex is bringing a brake to flyers spams as the broadsides unit can deliver a lot of fire (sky fire + Interceptor + SMS + High yield SMS)

i played a few games with 6th and i do prefer it over 5th. It bringd back a lot of good rules from previous editions.

J.

Wish i was using my Tau yesterday. In a 1000pt. tourney a guy had a stormraven and 2 valkries. I was playing my grey knights list with Mordrak. Its so hard to hit a flyer. If you manage to get through with that 1 in 6th shot, you need to roll a 5 or 6 just to glance(using a psycannon), and even then the flyer will most likely save against it.
That being said i like 6th a lot better than 5th also. I love the idea of allies especially.

[MagickalMemories]

Do.
Not.
Like.

All 5th needed was some streamlining to be a really good system, not wholesale revamping.
The system is totally skewed against HtH combat now, when it should be evenly divided. HtH armies should have just as much chance to win as non-HtH armies. They definitely do not. With the new Tau codex, they've been hosed even worse...
"Sure. You can assault that squad. Just let me file overwatch... with my ENTIRE ARMY."
Exaggerating? Yes. By much? No.

Tank survivability was nerfed way too hard, as well.

There are things I DO like about 6th, but they could've been folded into the superior 5th edition rules, IMO/

Eric

[kturock]

I've stated before, I dislike 6th ed., but not as much as 3rd, 4th & 5th. I'll play 6th ed.

If you want to play HtH games, play fantasy. 40k is the only 'military simulation' that has guns not much better than clubs. Where HtH is the 'norm' and the way to win battles. It absolutley amazes me that 40k players, especially those who whine about the loss of HtH and increase in shooting, won't play fantasy.
GW has simplfied the rules so 40K players would try it. [the biggest complaint I'vve heard about fantasy for the last 28 years is that 'movement's too hard'.]

The previous 3 editions gave 'free' movement to chargers, by removing casualties fro the rear. BS!
If a gunline shoots down the front line of chargers and they can't reach, then the gunline has done it's job.

This has been simulated in rules and shown in history to be a valid defensive tactic. Keep the enemy at range, if you have superior firepower. It's the way to hold hordes of zulu's, nids, aliens, et c. at bay while you shoot them.

[TheRhino]

I'm enjoying 6th Edition, just like I enjoyed 5th Edition.
6th was pretty kind to my Marines, but I run a fast-attack style force (bikes, speeders, and jumpers) most of the time. Bikes are great now, and Assault Marines are pretty neat as well. Speeders took a kick in the nuts, but nothing I can't plan around.

I've not found Overwatch to be all that decisive in any of the games I've played. I've seen a couple lucky strings of dice rolls cost people a unit (Forgefiend nuked by an Overwatching multmelta), or kill a couple models to deny charge range, but no games have turned solely on overwatch fire. You can blunt the force of overwatch by declaring sacrificial charges. You declare a charge with a unit of chumps before you declare with a unit of MVPs. The victom can only fire overwatch once, and attmepting to hold off the overwatch for the second unit runs the risk of them being stuck in and losing overwatch altogether.

Random charge ranges are both good and bad. I've failed 4" charges, but also made 10" charges. Plan for six inch average charge ranges and you'll be fine more often than not.

Flyers are abused a lot locally, at least the Valkyrie and the Night Scythe anyways. The Scythe is the single most broken unit in the game right now, IMO. it breaks EVERY rule for movement, flyers, AND transports, and is cheap as chips to boot. The Helldrake was fine as well, til they broke it with the 360 degree arc of fire FAQ, PLUS the no-cover AP3 vector strike.
Flyers and FMCs are fine and balanced, with the above exceptions.

My only other major gripe is the massive collection of holes and questiosn created by Fortifications. Terms and vocabulary in that entire section of rules are used to vaguely and interchangably that it invariably leads to an argument any time someone brings the Fortress of Redemption or a Skyshield Landing pad to a tournament.

[MagickalMemories]

I've stated before, I dislike 6th ed., but not as much as 3rd, 4th & 5th. I'll play 6th ed.

If you want to play HtH games, play fantasy. 40k is the only 'military simulation' that has guns not much better than clubs. Where HtH is the 'norm' and the way to win battles. It absolutley amazes me that 40k players, especially those who whine about the loss of HtH and increase in shooting, won't play fantasy.
GW has simplfied the rules so 40K players would try it. [the biggest complaint I'vve heard about fantasy for the last 28 years is that 'movement's too hard'.]

The previous 3 editions gave 'free' movement to chargers, by removing casualties fro the rear. BS!
If a gunline shoots down the front line of chargers and they can't reach, then the gunline has done it's job.

This has been simulated in rules and shown in history to be a valid defensive tactic. Keep the enemy at range, if you have superior firepower. It's the way to hold hordes of zulu's, nids, aliens, et c. at bay while you shoot them.

To be fair, I DO tend towards preferring HtH in games. That said, I don't think the game needs to be HtH focused. I think an even mix is best. Forgetting for a moment historical context, as these games aren't meant to be historical or realistic, the fact that GW puts out armies whose main focus is getting into HtH, then put out rules to annihilate those armies is ridiculous.

As for WHFB, I don't play for a few reasons:
1) I can barely afford ONE GW game, I certainly can't swing 2 (the way I like to do it)
2) Not enough time to focus on 2 games of what I consider "Main Game" caliber. I have enough time for one "Main Game," and one or 2 smaller "Diversion" games. That's it.
3) I DESPISE block movement. It's even more absurd than 40K's "Squad Movement" rules (squads can't separate, have to remain very close together, etc).

<SNIP>
My only other major gripe is the massive collection of holes and questiosn created by Fortifications. Terms and vocabulary in that entire section of rules are used to vaguely and interchangably that it invariably leads to an argument any time someone brings the Fortress of Redemption or a Skyshield Landing pad to a tournament.

Have you seen the Tau dex? If you have any reasonably skilled Tau players locally, you're HOSED.

Also, what kinds of fortification problems are you seeing?

Lastly, I'd gladly allow my partner to take a Fortress of Redemption. I'd welcome it, in fact. My Dark Eldar LOVE blowing up buildings and annihilating the units in/on them.

Eric

[Angel of Death 007]

Vehicles have been nerfed in 6th ed that at least everything can get 'tinged' to death by glances. That's not a tank that's an apc.

Shooting actually matters. Overwatch is back. It needs some work, but...A skroat IG or grot could hit in overwatch as well as a highly trained SM, CSM or Eldar, that makes no sense. [13%]

Flyers are now the new 'vehicles'. [tough things to kill and you have to play for/against.]

Play the odds vs flyers. 1 in 6 will hit it so shoot at it 6 times. I shot 1 down in the 2nd turn. My Havoc squad of 2 ML & 2 LC fired at it for 2 turns. 1 in 8 hots hit it and took it out. [6.6.6. not just the number of the beast]

Ya I hate how easy it is to shut down a vehicle, yet it is neigh impossible to hit a flyer. So you make vehicles weaker only to make flyers all but indestructible. I disagree with giving flyers any sort of save. You already make them near impossible to hit that should account for the fact that they would be hard to shoot down.

Now overwatch, when I first heard it was going to be in the book I was thinking Epic. Then i read it and i was like this is total crap. Basically a free spray shot at something. They should have went with overwatch where you mark your unit, which allows that unit to forfeit their shooting in their turn, to take a shot in your opponents turn. Granted in timed games it would throw things out of whack. think about the strategy though which could revolve around shooting. basically waiting for a better shot (as your opponent advances), or negating your shooting when you can only see a small part of the unit behind a building that will end up moving through to engage you in hand to hand, u go in overwatch readying your rifles to try to shoot down the chargers...

Not to mention it would make assaults more risky, and make people try to decide if they want to advance or not if there are 3-4 units sitting in overwatch. The overwatch should be resolved at full BS at this point.