Feedback question

[Doctari]

How do you guys deal with not getting feedback? Esp. After you've left feedback.

I'm up to like 4 different trades where I've either bought, sold or traded something. There part has arrived, my part has arrived (via dc) and I've left FB and not received any in return.

I assume they weren't upset with the trades (no one has contacted me anyway) is it not pretty much SOP to post something at the end of each trade?

I will be honest if I'm selling and they pay for it I've been posting feedback immediately. I.e. "Buyer paid quickly, no problems" but now I've got to be honest it's kind of frustrating me.

I hate to "withhold" feedback because that seems like blackmail to me. It's a semi-moral quandary. First world problems, right?

[LunaticDreams]

well you do not have to leave feedback. no rule for it. and two there is rules agaisnt feedback blackmail i believe.

[kturock]

look at my sig line.

[tordeck]

Sometimes people forget and they just need a gentle reminder. Send them a friendly PM confirm they are happy with the deal and if they would leave a ref for you.

And if that doesnt work, well a little public knowledge sometimes prompts them. Add it to your sig like kturock and I do. Might get there attention. And even if it doesnt at least others know who to watch out for.

[3eland]

Sometimes people forget and they just need a gentle reminder. Send them a friendly PM confirm they are happy with the deal and if they would leave a ref for you.

And if that doesnt work, well a little public knowledge sometimes prompts them. Add it to your sig like kturock and I do. Might get there attention. And even if it doesnt at least others know who to watch out for.

Or they just don't feel like leaving you any. I did a trade with a person and I paid them Paypal which was instant as I had a verified whatnot so Paypal sent the money right away. They sent models, I left feedback and received nothing. Sent them two friendly reminders since (this trade was last year) and they read it but did nothing, so either they don't think I deserved feedback for my speedy payment or they just can't be bothered for a little ol' soul like me. Not like they have had many trades since either lol only once since mine. It does suck though, especially when you don't do many trades and references are pretty big for this site.

[Doctari]

I guess my problem is that I do quite a few trades (esp. recently) but I ALWAYS leave feedback. It takes 2 seconds and since everyone on here uses it to determine primary or secondary shipping as well as ersatz trustworthiness, giving and not receiving is more then just annoying. In the long run it's damaging.

If you don't leave me feedback I assume something was wrong with our trade. If you don't tell me what's wrong I can't fix it. Not posting and being unhappy is just passive aggressive.

Meh. I shouldn't let it get to me I guess, I just wish there was a system for getting credit for the trade.. maybe something like, provide shipping info, proof of receipt etc and get at least a neutral trade. I've had this problem on Ebay recently as well. Is it really so hard to take a second out of your life and not be rude.

/end rant

[tordeck]

That sucks 3eland.

*looks at ref score, looks at 3land's

*realizes one of us has a problem.

[Stanislav]

The gentle reminder is generally the best way to go. If it doesn't happen...then it doesn't.

However when I see the sig lines with people's usernames saying that they "owe" them a reference....I laugh. As was said earlier, there are no "rules" that feedback is a requirement, so how do I "owe" someone? I know it is common courtesy, but that's all it is.

Sometimes as well as you think you have done on your part (albeit a very small percentage), maybe your partner wasn't happy? And they see it as something not worth leaving a positive but not bad enough to leave a neutral or negative. I have been in that boat a couple of times.

I do try to leave refs, but I do forget. I do generally wait until all goods (money or items) are in the appropriate hands before I leave one, but even sometimes then I forget. I don't mind a nudge or even a couple if I am busy.

[kturock]

don't laff about sig lines.
I had someone's name there, I left a good eref and they owed me 1.

I got an email from a potential dealer with him, saying that he told him to leave me a ref or he wouldn't deal with him.

I got the ref within the hour and his name was removed.

Peer pressure and public embarresment, works.

[Stanislav]

That runs more in the lines of blackmail through peer pressure which in my mind is nothing but a loophole. As you said...there are no rules saying you HAVE to leave feedback.

Do you think I haven't run into someone not leaving feedback in 450+ documented trades? Be the better person and just leave feedback that's deserved. Other's won't take the high ground, and that's just the way it works.

[LunaticDreams]

i ignore the people who need to leave me refs part of sigs. ive forgotten sometimes and when they send a reminder thru pms i go and fix it. But if i lost out on a trade simply because no one pmd me and put it in their sig i would be raising some heck with people over it.

[kturock]

That runs more in the lines of blackmail through peer pressure which in my mind is nothing but a loophole. As you said...there are no rules saying you HAVE to leave feedback.

Do you think I haven't run into someone not leaving feedback in 450+ documented trades? Be the better person and just leave feedback that's deserved. Other's won't take the high ground, and that's just the way it works.

I already sent eveyone who is or was in my sig line at leat 2 reminders. also they get a pm when a ref is sent.

if after 3-4 weeks they don't leave 1, they get a special place.

I reward extraordinary trades as well.

[i've actually had traders ask, what it took or would take, to get in my always trade list. which really isn't much.] {anyone wanna buy a 1st born son? }

[Stanislav]

Sorry, I see it as silly. It boils down to the rules, which I think your sig line is manipulative and nothing but a loop hole. Several years ago, there was a group of people that were asked to remove the "Never trade with..." portion of their sigs and yours (and others) is just as bad.

There is nothing stating that positive references are an entitlement.

By the same tone as what you are doing, what if one of them was to leave you negative feedback after seeing your sig? They completed a trade with you and have decided that "they would never trade with you again", so left a negative. It's all well and good because they have followed the rules and in their mind they wouldn't. It's not retaliatory, so...

I's a loop hole and manipulative...but within the rules.

Is it right? Absolutely not, but neither is blackmail by peer pressure.

[BITZJUNKIE]

Interesting thread and definite insight as well. First off:


@ LunaticDreams:

well you do not have to leave feedback. no rule for it. and two there is rules against feedback blackmail i believe.

Completely correct; however, I believe it's a nicety that we should all be leaving to provide an accurate record of trades. You are only as good as your last trade after all. Whatever is said there is going to be - or should be - the first thing that any prospective buyer or seller is checking out .

Doctari has left a ref as a nicety and whoever should leave a ref for him and continue to pass on the nicety as well.


@ tordeck:

It does suck though, especially when you don't do many trades and references are pretty big for this site.

I can't agree more either. Refs are absolutely essential when you are starting out, but my question is why doesn't it seem to be important enough to leave a ref for someone with a large amount of trades too? I've been a victim of that on a few occasions.

Sometimes people forget and they just need a gentle reminder. Send them a friendly PM confirm they are happy with the deal and if they would leave a ref for you.

I think it's either not caring or flat-out forgetting moreso than just not wanting to leave a ref; thus my sig addition just a moment ago:

Please try to leave a ref for each transaction. I will. It tells myself and others what kind of trade partner we have!


@ kturock:

...don't laff about sig lines.
I had someone's name there, I left a good eref and they owed me one. I got an email from a potential dealer with him, saying that he told him to leave me a ref or he wouldn't deal with him.

I got the ref within the hour and his name was removed.


...Peer pressure and public embarresment, works.

...And that's why I replied to this post.

Listing out your due refs worked in spades in this case: you got your ref and he and I got to trade. All I did was remind him. No shame and no demands either. Just a "You should leave some sort of reference for your deal with kturock before we move into a trade" was all.


@ Doctari:

It takes 2 seconds and since everyone on here uses it to determine primary or secondary shipping as well as ersatz trustworthiness... In the long run it's damaging.

If you don't leave me feedback I assume something was wrong with our trade. If you don't tell me what's wrong I can't fix it...

ABSOULUTELY valid points and the crux of it all .

... how to fix it though? Still unsure. I'd like to think that the little snippet at the end of my sig now answers that. It makes me feel better at least and isn't pushy. Ultimately, a gentle reminder is what I've used in the past Doctari. If nothing comes of a pm reminder or two, I'd probably consider it a loss of the ref.

[Doctari]

Here's the problem with "it's not part of the rules". Neither is "lower rating ships first".

BUT: Every single person on this board uses it as the law. So once you have a high rating (and you only have one on the common courtesy of other traders) it no longer behooves you to leave feedback. Why would you want more people shipping simultaneously with you? There's no upside to it.

It is also used as a gauge of probability. When I say that I mean this:

Let's assume I trade with Porkuslime. He has a rating of 480 billion I have a rating of mid 50s. Now for whatever reason Porkus has decided that he doesn't feel the need to ship out his part of the trade. I come on the boards and complain about it, he disputes it and says "hey I lost the reciept but look I traded with 4 other people this week who got their stuff." Who is the community going to believe?

The guy with 1k + rating. In retaliation he posts negative feedback, my middle of the road rating goes down his stays roughly the same and no one ever trades with me again.

Every single trade you make is either good, bad or neutral. If you can't post "this trade sucked and here's why" or "The models arrived in mediocre condition and were not exactly as described but I was ok with it" it just seems pointless to have the system at all.