A Letter to GW

[jason1977]

So DA have a new book. Less than a week after release there are errata. I dont know about the rest of you gamers but I sick of this. We all work hard for our money. We pay $50 (or whatever you pay) to get the new book. Now its full of errors. I cant stand it anymore. I sat down and hammered out a letter to GW. Not GW USA divison but GW world HQ in England. I will be posting out Friday. Please dont ask me not to. I enjoy the hobby and all aspects of it but I cant stand buying a book and having it be full of errors.

The letter:

To whom it may concern:


Just wanted to inform you that I'm not very happy now with what GW has done or more to the point not done. Product verification.

My Dark Angels codex just came in to me on Monday 14/1. This is after I bought the White Dwarf on Saturday 12/1. The White Dwarf had a picture mistake. No left hand on a Ravenwing biker on page 15. So some GW employee made the model, someone else painted it, someone else took a picture, a company printed it and not one person said 'hey he’s missing a hand'. I can live with the hand mistake. It’s a picture that really has no bearing on a game. However, other mistakes I cannot. I paid $50 for my Dark Angels codex copy and today 16/1, not even a week out on the shelves, GW issues FAQs and amendments. I can deal with the FAQ parts as not every game situation can be cooked up by GW staffers and testers. However, the amendments have to stop unless it is reference to a new main rule book or interaction with another new codex.

For months now I have seen 'leaked' rules coming out. Weeks before the release, I saw 'leaked' images. Are these by GW employees or from the manufacturers? I don’t know and frankly don’t care. I don’t believe any of them until I have the book in hand. I don’t know when the choice was made to make Dark Angels the next 6th edition codex to be done. I don’t know when work was started on it. I don’t know when work was done and it was sent to printers. All I know is this: Money is tight for me (I was saving for the new codex since the starter box came out) and I can’t be dropping $50 on a hobby I enjoy only to have to print up corrections within a week.

I can play right now 2 40k armies. Orks and Dark Angles. My ork army can surpass 8k in points easily. My Dark Angels (under the last book) can break 10k in points with a full Deathwing. I have 2 smaller armies (Blood Angels and Imperial Guard) in the wings awaiting work but those are allied armies for my Dark Angels with points under 600. I can only hope that when those armies get new books, the typos and proof reading errors are not so profound and numerous as to require an errata within a week of publication!

While the share holders have given GW and its fans the chance to make newer, better and exciting products, without the fans nothing sells. Please take the time to proof read or fans like myself will walk away fed up with the mistakes made.

Thank you,

Jason

Now if you wish to join me in this please do so. Please write up your own letter and send it to them. Only by standing together can we make a change. As a consumer that is your right. GWs world HQ address can be found on their web site here:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/conte ... 10&start=1

Just add England as the country.

[eman1_2]

The hellbrute in the chaos dex was re-costed just a few weeks after release, too.

Don't mind the cost too much, but for a simple proofread should catch some of the crap.

[kturock]

Good luck. It's been done before. Their reply to us was, accidents happen. He complained about the US prices not being in line with UK. they said it costs more to make to US standards. Unless they market share hits rock bottom, nothing will change.
Bottom line, good luck. You're wasting you're time and effort.

Never try to teach a pig to dance. You'll frustrate yourself and annoy the pig.

[Imaginos]

My only concern is that your email appears somewhat rambling. It reads like you are just bitching about stuff, and that's what whoever gets it in England will see it as. If you give a greater focus, tighten it up, I think it would be more effective (assuming your issue is really the lack of proofing/playtesting rather than just bitching).

[Adunaphel]

I agree with Imaginos. Stick to the main point (which I think should be the fact that they now want $50 for a codex and it's full of errors). You cover too many items and it looks to just ramble.

I agree with kturock also. It won't do a dang bit of good. Medevl and I have discussed at great length how awesome it would be for GW to go down in flames and rise back up as a "gamers" company or even one that realizes that they are making a game, not just profits.


Karl

[MagickalMemories]

I suggest you change your numeric dates to alpha. Different countries do dates different ways, so your European formatting won't be universal.

Eric

[Phorge]

(...) You're wasting you're time and effort. (...)

I disagree. We must make ourselves heard. Just sit down and do nothing changes nothing.
On the other hand, someone with tens of thousands of points in armies just doesn't quit overnight. I mean, stop buying their products would be the most effective way to make ourselves heard, but GW players that do care about their money are already too deep in the Warhammers to walk away just like that.

[Adunaphel]

I disagree. We must make ourselves heard. Just sit down and do nothing changes nothing.
On the other hand, someone with tens of thousands of points in armies just doesn't quit overnight. I mean, stop buying their products would be the most effective way to make ourselves heard, but GW players that do care about their money are already too deep in the Warhammers to walk away just like that.

I agree that sitting on our thumbs won't get us anywhere. But, my protest is and will continue to be, that I am done with GW until the attitude of the company changes. $50 for a codex is absurd. For the cost of a codex and a unit of GW product could buy me a very cool and innovative game.

You can bash on me all you want about "whining" about GW's prices, but at some point everybody should probably take a realistic look at how they spend their "luxury" money and which way would be more economical while being fun.

I admit that if GW re-released Mordheim or Necromunda I would be all over it. But, that is about it for me. The main lines have become stale (even if the new 40k rules have some interesting new bits). I will keep what I have because it's painted and I like my armies, but I am done with new editions, new (cough) rules, and prices that really make me pause and wonder why.

I realize that $50 for some people is no big deal, but what those folks have to realize is that there are many of us gamers who have families and tons of other outlets for our money and that GW's upward spiral of money grabbing makes those games (not the hobby itself) less attractive.


Karl

[s_o_r_r_o_w]

I admit that if GW re-released Mordheim or Necromunda I would be all over it.

I know you know the PDFs are free online--so why would a re-release make a difference?

There are so many models out there (Foundry Street Violence, Rezolution, Infinity, MERCs, etc) that you could play either game forever and never spend a dollar on GW. As it should be.

[Adunaphel]

I know you know the PDFs are free online--so why would a re-release make a difference?

There are so many models out there (Foundry Street Violence, Rezolution, Infinity, MERCs, etc) that you could play either game forever and never spend a dollar on GW. As it should be.

You are absolutely correct. I guess I wasn't thinking. I don't know why Specialist Games get so little love from GW, especially when they are their best games. I guess because they are skirmish level, GW feels that there is not enough profit in them.

I was just thinking that an update with some new factions and scenery would probably pull money out of my pocket.

But, you are very correct in your statements and I do have printed copies of the PDF's for both games.

Karl

[Imaginos]

With the exception of Infinity, I'm not buying any new 28mm's now anyway. I've been changing over to 15mm. And for a price point, I just ordered 42 post apoc raiders and 12 hostages in 15mm's for $36 including shipping last night. That was direct from the company, so no discount. But I'm okay with that price level.

[TheRhino]

I admit that if GW re-released Mordheim or Necromunda I would be all over it.

I know you know the PDFs are free online--so why would a re-release make a difference?

There are so many models out there (Foundry Street Violence, Rezolution, Infinity, MERCs, etc) that you could play either game forever and never spend a dollar on GW. As it should be.

we've tried a couple times to start up Necromunda here. We have a flourishing 40K crowd, so we thuoght Necromunda might be a nice diversion. Turns out, no one wanted a diversion. The typical argument is "I only have X hours on X day. I can play 40K then, or Necromunda. I have the majority of a finished army for 40K, and require no additional major costs beyond a new codex every now and then. Explain to me how the cost of starting up Necromunda makes any sense for me? I dont have the time for two games."

The family-having gamers in my shop are pressed more for TIME than for MONEY. It's hard to convince someone to abandon the work they've done and pick up something new that may not pan out as a success. Folks were gung-ho about Blood Bowl for a while. Three guys bought teams, theyplayed 4 or 5 games, and then wnt back to 40K because they felt it was lame to just play games amongst the three of them while everyone else advanced their 40K armies.

Third party games crash and burn in this shop. Malifaux? No one ever touched it. Infinity? No one has heard of it. Warhammer Fantasy? Total joke. Even Warmahordes is thin. The problems are support and visibility. There is a 40K tourney every month that is well-attended. it's a visible draw for the prospective player, as are the weekly 40K nights with 16+ players. Warmachine turneys draw 5 people, if they're lucky. They no longer run WHFB events because they were consistently cancelled day-of due to 2-3 players showing up.
People like the looks of new games by thrid parties like Infinity and Bolt Action, but there's no staying power. The one guy who went all-in for Malifaux bought several hundred dollars worthof product, painted it, did a couple demos, and found that no one was interested in yet another minis game. he's now sitting on several undred dollars' worth of scrap metal. His experiences warn others away from trying to jump start third party games. Unless you're happy playing the very occasional game against a close friend, you've got no outlet for your game.

I'm ranting now, and have forgotten what my point was....oops.

[Imaginos]

People like the looks of new games by thrid parties like Infinity and Bolt Action, but there's no staying power. The one guy who went all-in for Malifaux bought several hundred dollars worthof product, painted it, did a couple demos, and found that no one was interested in yet another minis game. he's now sitting on several undred dollars' worth of scrap metal. His experiences warn others away from trying to jump start third party games.

Maybe do some searching and see if there is a website you could point him toward. One that deals with trading, selling, swapping (dare I say, bartering?) these minis he's stuck with. I'm sure there's something out there like that.

(This was tongue in cheek, btw. should have been included)

[Adunaphel]

I'm ranting now, and have forgotten what my point was....oops.

Apparently, your point is that your shop LOVES 40K.

No problem with that. I don't game at the shop. I have my family and my group of gamers. Most of them have given up the mainline GW games because of the cost. In fact, it is just one gamer, me, my wife, and my eldest son who even play 40K. Where as the rest of the group is pretty much game for any other game experience. Whether it's an RPG, board game, or other miniature game.

MY point is that we all are in different circumstances. If you LOVE 40K and nobody will play anything else in your area, then have fun. That's fine. The models are usually very nice, the rules are simple, and you can usually find a lot of folks playing it in your area. All nice positives.

I, personally, have decided that enough is enough and there are plenty of new and exciting games out there to dive into. Plus, I am not dependent on what everybody else in the area is into. Just find a gamer wife and make gamer babies...

But, don't give GW any more money. Dang it.

Karl

[jul]

True is the shame of publishing a book and have an Errata produced within 2 weeks of its release, for a company as GW, this is not acceptable as they do have the manpower, the softwares and the money to produce something close to perfection. If they were really evil, it would a good business plan to puch people toward digital products....
It is always good to raise your voice, but does anybody tried to return the codex according to that:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/conte ... eMode=true#

that is a more powerful tool that sending an email....

Karl, i understand your feeling towards GW, that has been like that when they started replacing Gaming-Directors by Former LLyod/Barclays/CL/BNP-Directors. On the other hand, i'm not sure they had the choice if they wanted to reach the size they are. And that's because they are that size they could continue to produce/license WF RPG, develop the 40k RPG, create Forgeworld (which produces the most interessing 40k-gaming materials). PP will soon reach the critical mass where it will need to expand and change drastically their business plan if they want to grow and prosper... and that's pretty good for the gaming as it will change the setting the same way it changed when GW realized PP was a serious contender.
The down side is that their core products tend to lose the flavour they use to have. IMHO, the orks 1987-1998 will always be better than the orks 1998-2013, even though the models are now really of higher quality, they lost a bit of flavour along the years...

I do agree that by not spending all gaming money in only one system allows people to discover other games and compare to what it was 25 years ago, there's loads of nice games currently (Infinity, Malifaux...) but all that it takes is 2 players.

J