thouhgt about new csm codex.

[kturock]

I've seen it. The dreadnaughts are gone. Hellbrutes seem to be replacing them. I don't see an entry for them in the book.

I can't get to the GW site, but are the CSM Dreads still for sale?

UPDATE:
just checked the site. dreads are no where to be found.

so as usual, all of us who've paid $$$ for models to not be able to use again.

great customer support there GW.

lets list the models or armies that GW has just dumped with no way to use them: cypher, chaos dwarves, imperial guard jet bikes, harlequin jet bikes, squats, csm dreads, several empire vehicles, several models of hybrid genestealers, genestealer primarch, gotek & felix, Gaunts Ghosts, commisaar yarick [2 versions/poses].

I know there's more I'm not remembering.

[Bahamut_Dragonlord]

I can't say that surprises me, though I thought I read somewhere it was like Hellbrutes/Dreadnoughts, so there is a possibility that they could still be used in that capacity? (Note I don't really play 40k anymore and have never really played Chaos and have not seen the new codex.)

[kturock]

yup dreads weren't bad enough, now the hellbute has a nerf bat.

costs 15 points more. has less weapons and 1 less atack.
HB starts with multi melt and a pf.
dread had ccw, TL bolter & 1 more weapon. dread could add another CCW and have 4 attacks.
HB.. no.
HB can now have weapons that the dread didn't missle launcher, thunder hammer, power scourge, it can replace the MM with a 2nd ccw, but doeesn't gain an extra attck. [unless of course it's typical GW screw up and not writing it in the rules.]

[kturock]

still nothing to stop the drop pod spam assault.
actually with the threat of the fiends, its really just a reason to use it and drop on top of them to over run them in 1 turn..

as usual. csm got $%^&^.

now having typhus turning cultists into zombies is ok, but it should be for any chaos lord with a mark of nurgle. [gee, it was only in 1 of their own books]

[Bahamut_Dragonlord]

yup dreads weren't bad enough, now the hellbute has a nerf bat.

costs 15 points more. has less weapons and 1 less atack.
HB starts with multi melt and a pf.
dread had ccw, TL bolter & 1 more weapon. dread could add another CCW and have 4 attacks.
HB.. no.
HB can now have weapons that the dread didn't missle launcher, thunder hammer, power scourge, it can replace the MM with a 2nd ccw, but doeesn't gain an extra attck. [unless of course it's typical GW screw up and not writing it in the rules.]

The thunder hammer and power scourge is actually bringing back old chaos dread weapons isn't it? Plus, they have that shiney new forgefiend/maulerfiend thing which seems like it would fill a similar niche?

[kturock]

niche maybe.. the shooter can't HtH and the HtH can't shoot. they have the skills, but no weapons.

and that still doesn't do anything about the dread models. I have 2. FW stil sells them and upgrades..

so, that's about $100 wasted.

[Bahamut_Dragonlord]

Do they have rules in any of the FW books? Regardless, GW loves to obsolete models. Look at.. well most of the fantasy models ever made...

[kturock]

Do they have rules in any of the FW books? Regardless, GW loves to obsolete models. Look at.. well most of the fantasy models ever made...

thus my statement, lets make a list of GW obsolete models.

[spiralingcadaver]

They renamed Dreads, that's it. Jeez.

things I can think of that GW's removed removed:


special characters dropped:
Yarrick (really? he was in the most recent one... dunno what you're talking about)
Cypher (lord)*
schaffer's last chancers (lord commissar or company command, plus vets and penal legion)*
doomrider (lord)*
emperor's champion (in non-BT armies- company champion)*
lord solar macharius (CCS, other special characters)
sgt Naaman (that ultramarines scout sgt, or a regular scout sgt)*
asmodai (regular chaplain, rumored to be back)*
brother bethor (standard bearer)*
that ultramarines standard bearer...Ancient Somethingorother (standard bearer/chapter standard)*
the SW dread (SW venerable dread)*

units/generic characters:
imperial guard jet bikes (rough riders)*
marine jet bikes (bikes or FW jetbikes)*
harlequin jet bikes (d/e jetbikes)*
genestealer primarch (it's the patriarch, also hybrids, and rumor is they're getting rereleased, patriarch and genestealers)*
CSM dreads (hellbrute)*
various IG vehicles (SM allies)*
zoats
alpha legion cultists (CSM cultists)*
Iron Hands Terminator sergeants in regular squads (no idea, maybe term squads?)
apothecaries instead of SM sergeants (FW red scorpions rules)*
rapiers and tarantulas (FW reintroduced rules)*
LR spartan (FW spartan assault tank)*
conversion beamer (SM master of the forge)*
DW termies w/ CCWs and missile launchers (rumored)
iron fathers (Master of the forge)*
warsmith (warpsmith)*
spanner boyz (FW tech list, or mekboyz/regular boyz)*
deathwatch and UM tyranid war veterans AKSA tyranid hunters (basically identical to SM veterans now, minus the cool HB)*
sisters of battle zealots (pretty hard to represent)

armies:
squats (guard and/or marines, probably, rumored Demiurg)*
lost and the damned (CSM and IG, or various FW lists)*
gaunt's ghosts (and other IG regimental rules, such as the catachan and cadian army lists-- veteran rules)*
IG armored companies (FW replaced this with kried armored company)*
kroot mercs (rumored release, otherwise SOL or orks/nids, maybe?)
arbites (IG carapace armor)*
witch hunters/daemon hunters (lots of missing options, most replaceable w/ them plus IG or WH & DH)*
salamanders army (mostly w/ the Salamanders character, though not a great representation)*
chaos legions (all can technically work with the new chaos codex, but are missing special rules, except Iron Warriors, which requires an IG ally to use a basilisk)*
eldar craftworlds (all can be used in the new codex easily enough*
except for the Ulthwe Strike force, which can't use a webway portal unless you count it as a bastardized and weird DE army... which sucks, 'cause that was the one I played)
tyranid mycetic assault list (tyranids)*
flesh tearers (incorporated into Blood angels)*
white scars (marine bike captain comes close)*
Red Corsairs (CSM or FW huron)*
imperial fists (again, w/ that termie captain or a master of the forge)*
13th company (space wolf upgrades)*
feral orks (this one is really thoroughly odd... while orks w/ bikes are the most obvious, running them as catachan IG is probably closer to their old rules/stats, except for no T4)*
speed freeks (regular orks, which even mostly works if you didn't have a bajillion bike and nob squads)*

*things which have returned in a different form or can pretty easily be proxied with other units or generic character equivalents & upgrades). A number of these really pissed me off until the allies rules reintroduced the options

don't know fantasy well enough to say about that.

[kturock]

the dreads haven't been renamed as hellbrutes. the models and weapons don't load out the same.

also dreads were expensive models, about $50 each. now.. they giant paperweights.

then again so was the domwheel for the skaven for about 10 years. csm dreads might be resculpted/modded into sm, but that's with alot of work.

[spiralingcadaver]

the dreads haven't been renamed as hellbrutes. the models and weapons don't load out the same.

also dreads were expensive models, about $50 each. now.. they giant paperweights.

then again so was the domwheel for the skaven for about 10 years. csm dreads might be resculpted/modded into sm, but that's with alot of work.

really? I don't have the codex yet: what options are not included?

[MattHoell]

All the options are the same. And yes while the HB is 15points all of the weapons are 5 points cheaper or more. I would gladly pay 10 points for my dread NOT to shoot my own models in the back.

There is no reason why you can't use your old chaos dread for a helllbrute, in fact as someone mentioned the scourge and hammer now have rules. Not sure why you are complaining so much

Oh and you can play Cyher, if you live in Spain
http://perturbatory.blogspot.com/2012/1 ... otted.html

[usernamesareannoying]

awesome post spiralingcadaver.
i thought you quit GW anyway kturock?

[kturock]

If you read the faq, rarely could you shot your own troops in the back. it was a 45 degree front arc ONLY. and the HB has less attacks.

Whyam I complaining? Well since I've played or owned GW games since 199, I've purchased many models, only to have them banned or removed days or monthes later. I've ordered bought rulebooks, the day of release only to have them become obsolete the next month. [2nd ed vehicle book].
Now dreads aren't usabke except as a proxy for a HB.
I started to quit 40k. I actually sold most of my models off, untill I read 6th ed. 3rd, 4th & 5th ed were crap. The game was only HtH combat for infantry. Shooting was almost worthless. Now shooting is lethal. SM as always are spam, but, sinc ethey are GW's icon, they'll always be ovepowered. [the only race that can have drop pod assault.]

[s_o_r_r_o_w]

kt, I think the idea is that the HB=the old Dread; the plastic HB certainly has a lot in common with the proportions of the old Dread.

I don't have the book in hand, but I believe you when you say it got worse. But that's a different problem from being deleted. I think the old Dreads are just Mark I Hellbrutes--another example of GW revisionism.