What do people expect when they come here?

[starslayer]

I don't understand the whole newbie philosophy of " pay me first with low references." Look at the dead beat and BTR section, mostly low ref traders.

If you can't trust me with 400 refs, how can I trust you with 20?? Makes absolutely no sense.

[shakespear]

I
- I understand not trading huge things internationally, because shipping for heavy lots is abusively expensive, but I can't shake the feeling that most people who downright refuse to trade ANYTHING outside their country are just xenophobic and ignorant, with this perception that other countries are legally challenged pirate states populated by morally inferior people. Case by case, alright, it is sometimes unworthy to ship internationally, but by saying that you won't even bother to look into it you're just blocking off a huge slice of potential interest, besides showing smallmindedness;

For me personally, international shipping is too much of a hassle. There are way too many forms to fill out and parties can end up owing money on the package if you dont get your declaration right.

I wont even ship to Canada.

[Imaginos]

I don't understand the whole newbie philosophy of " pay me first with low references." Look at the dead beat and BTR section, mostly low ref traders.

If you can't trust me with 400 refs, how can I trust you with 20?? Makes absolutely no sense.

Yep. I'm passing up on a deal with a guy that has much lower references. I actually offered to pay 1/2 up front, then the other 1/2 upon delivery. He didn't want to consider that, so I just let it go and said good luck.

Regarding international shipping - the only international shipping I do is when I send gifts to my mother-in-law. Aside from that, the extra hassle of customs forms and waiting in line at the post office along with shipping costs have turned me off shipping internationally. Like MM said, if I'm spending $35 on shipping, I could likely just buy what I'm trading for.

[kturock]

- I understand not trading huge things internationally, because shipping for heavy lots is abusively expensive, but I can't shake the feeling that most people who downright refuse to trade ANYTHING outside their country are just xenophobic and ignorant, with this perception that other countries are legally challenged pirate states populated by morally inferior people. Case by case, alright, it is sometimes unworthy to ship internationally, but by saying that you won't even bother to look into it you're just blocking off a huge slice of potential interest, besides showing smallmindedness;

I almost never trade outside N. America. I can assure you, there's no xenophobia involved. For me, it's MOSTLY coincidental. SOME foreign countries just aren't worth dealing with. If I can't get my package to your country tracked 9and, on some, you can't), I'm not doing a deal.
If it's a small trade and we're covering our own shipping, I'm probably not interested. Shipping outside US and N. America gets expensive. If I wanted to spend $35, I'd just buy that new box of models. LOL
The US Post Office has a system where you can buy postage online at a cheaper rate. That makes it very easy for some people to just pay the postage & drop the models off. They just might not find it to be "worth the hassle" of having to do the extra stuff involved with international shipping (that's strictly hypothetical, mind you).


Eric

You can fill out the customs forms online and print them out, but you can't get the lower, small package, rate.
Same as you can't buy 1st class postage online, just priority mail. [and express mail.]

[MagickalMemories]

Good to know.
LOL Shows how often I use online shipping. : )
Hint: Never - I like to make sure I help keep humans in jobs... I won't even use the self-serve check out lines @ Walmart.

Eric

[melquisedeq]

OK you guys, maybe accusations of xenophobia are a bit too much... or maybe I'm just a special type of trader.

This is particularly difficult for me to accept because here in Portugal we have great postal service, one of the best in the world according to independent surveys on successful delivery rates and dates, adequate compensation to missing packages and overall customer satisfaction. Packages from anywhere in Europe, inbound or outbound, arrive within the week 99% of the time, and I've had it happen once with stuff half the planet away (New Zealand), and more than once with North American orders (although the norm is a couple of weeks). And yet I find Portugal CONSTANTLY in the "wont ship to" lists. UK people statistically have a higher chance to have packages missing within the UK than shipping it to Portugal (and probably most of western Europe, at that), and yet I hear them constantly "Aw man blablabla the hassle".

I don't consider my country an example in anything, please dont think I'm some sort of nationalist. Here in Europe a nationalist is not a type of patriot, it is first and foremost the type of people who allowed the tiny moustache guy to avenge his tiny penis, so not many of us are blindly patriotic (aka nationalists). But in here there are post offices everywhere, you spend - at most - half an hour whatever your business may be, prices are relatively cheap and the overall experience is FAR from pulling teeth. As such, the process of stopping by, buying a postal option, paying for it and getting out is EXACTLY the same no matter where you are shipping to. Well, if you're shipping outside the EU, you have the hassle of signing a customs form..........which is literally an inch x inch square of paper where you write down in very broad terms what is in the package - it can be anything, from "miniatures" to "toys" to, and I've had this one sent once "lead", one word will do - and then sign it. Those two words (three if you have a fancy signature) are all the new hassle you'll have, compared to posting within the EU.

As for the prices, that's all eye for different markets... Take Reaper, for instance. To have an idea of average Reaper prices in Europe, check out their RRP and then do a gypsy exchange for pounds (3.99$ in gypsy exchange rates is £3.99, when in normal rates it would be around £2.50). In the US, however, Reaper has retailers selling it at a permadiscount (Miniature-Giant, for example). Even more, here in Portugal, unlike the UK, we dont even have ANY Reaper, so not paying shipping is not even an option. So, to a portuguese guy, that Reaper mini that you can buy for $2.99 has a comfort price zone around the $8. And while it may not be worthwhile to ship a single mini, a small flat-rate box takes quite a few at 16$.
As for trades, each pays his own shipping so if you really want the lead it's not that bad. If each sends a flat-rate box full of figs, each pays 16$ for a box full of figs.
It doesn't work ALL the time in ALL trades. Much bigger trades get exponentially more expensive instead of cheaper to ship, and much smaller trades are proportionatelly more difficult to compensate for the minimum shipping costs. But it would have worked in many of those times you straight away said "nay, foreigner, with your crazy customs" (haha get it?) and then sold the stuff for the bare minimum you wanted to get for it.

All I'm trying to say, because this is the fourth paragraph and I fell like I've barely scratched the surface, is that successful deliveries have generally the same percentage rate across the western world. You will get screwed over every 100th postage, no matter where to or from they are. So if that 100th happened to get lost on its way to Spain, you will from then on stop shipping to Spain. It's arbitrary. That's why the "won't ship to" lists are so disparate, because they're composed of the countries the dude happened to have lost stuff in, in the past (except for thieving countries like Spain, of course). Jokes aside, I won't dispute that shipping to Ghana or Pakistan is not the same as shipping within the US, but I will dispute the same thing said of shipping to Europe, even a good part of South America. It's one of those areas where random isolated horror stories do more for public perception of an issue than actual statistics.

Just consider it, level-headedly, on a case-by-case basis, that's all I'm DEMANDING OF YOU, LACKEYS!

[starslayer]

I have nothing against other Countries. Its just the huge expense to ship there that I dont like.

[MagickalMemories]

Well said, melq.

Eric

[gwaddict]

I think that alot of the time folks dont like to negotiate. I always spend a good amount of time with potential folks trying to balance up trades so that they are as equitable as possible and a win win for everyone. If I think we are close enough that we can make the magic happen I will do what I can but sometimes you just get those funny folks that are looking for freebies. I figure no harm, they are having fun tossing out a ridiculously low offer then I will have fun telling them I just melted all the minis and sold them for scrap plastic for twice what they were offering

I am one of those horrible "make an offer folks" . I have had plenty of items in my posession that I value at .75 cents and I get offers of $25 more, thank god I didnt sell it for .75 cents but I have also had lots of stuff that I think man this is worth like $50 but end up selling for $25 because thats all its worth to others.

[shakespear]

I imagine many bartertowners have never dealt with a pawn shop. I assume they just turn around and walk out the door after the first offer.

[Imaginos]

I am one of those horrible "make an offer folks" . I have had plenty of items in my posession that I value at .75 cents and I get offers of $25 more, thank god I didnt sell it for .75 cents but I have also had lots of stuff that I think man this is worth like $50 but end up selling for $25 because thats all its worth to others.

Well said. I agree with the above quote.

[kturock]

I imagine many bartertowners have never dealt with a pawn shop. I assume they just turn around and walk out the door after the first offer.

pawn shops offer 10-25% of the value and then resell it for close to value.

That's what alot of the newer traders seem to want here. sell high, even if it's poorly painted, mising parts crap, and get nib or nos in return.

i don't know how many ads I've seen, that state their stuff is built and ONLY want nib or nos in return. retail for retail.

[shakespear]

Never understood that, if I wanted to pay retail, I would order direct from the manufacturer

[Spire_182]

I think you are seeing more "pickers" on Bartertown and fewer gamers. It's become glamorized on TV and is a long time "get rich on the internet" scam. And it's not just Bartertown, my not-so-FLGS has a picker cleaning him out of any back issue comic books of value. It's sad really...

[shakespear]

I think you are seeing more "pickers" on Bartertown and fewer gamers. It's become glamorized on TV and is a long time "get rich on the internet" scam. And it's not just Bartertown, my not-so-FLGS has a picker cleaning him out of any back issue comic books of value. It's sad really...

At least comic books have value. Most mini gaming stuff is worth 30% less than retail if its sealed. Less if its not popular, is painted, assembled, opened, ect.

Now some boardgames can be worth a bit but not a ton of money.