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someone earlier wrote wrote: Paypal pretty much protects you from getting ripped off, so its really a no brainer.
I see this sentiment a lot and it is just not accurate. PayPal is good, but if the other party makes a cash grab and run, they will do nothing for you. I speak from experience. If the other party does not have any funds in their account, PayPal can only put a hold on future funds. Now if you paid by credit card through PayPal, they will recommend you file a claim with your credit card company. But if you paid with direct bank payment or exiting funds, you are likely just at a loss.
(edited because I misquoted starslayer)
Last edited by Imaginos on Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
starslayer wrote:I'm going to insist that I receive payment before shipping, and I will ship however you like with a lot of protection in place for miniatures. Paypal pretty much protects you from getting ripped off, so its really a no brainer.
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Stuff like that always gives me a giggle.
Also " Dont low-ball me!".
But they dont have any mention of price. How do I know what you consider a low offer?
Imaginos - please don't misquote me. I was quoting some nonsense another member said. That was not my statement.
we are in agreement. PayPal offers little or no protection. There have been many new unproven members who want you to pay first no matter the rating
If you can't trust me with a 400+, how do you expect me to trust you? No logic to it.
I just had an experience with another member. We worked on a deal, had everything pretty wrapped up. He had a small fraction of my references here. He wanted to be paid first because he had some personal trade rules in his signature. This Guy even had a neutral reference for not delivering as promised. I honestly didn't see his signature til he mentioned it, as I typically don't pay attention to them. Many are jokes or silly. Now I have my own signature.
someone earlier wrote wrote: Paypal pretty much protects you from getting ripped off, so its really a no brainer.
I see this sentiment a lot and it is just not accurate. PayPal is good, but if the other party makes a cash grab and run, they will do nothing for you. I speak from experience. If the other party does not have any funds in their account, PayPal can only put a hold on future funds. Now if you paid by credit card through PayPal, they will recommend you file a claim with your credit card company. But if you paid with direct bank payment or exiting funds, you are likely just at a loss.
(edited because I misquoted starslayer)
Not true. PayPal *can* do something about it... they just try really hard not to.
Some time, when you've got the time, check out their TOS. when you sign up, yo give them the right to take money from your BANK ACCOUNT if you owe them money. That means the other guy did this, too.
So, really, they do have the ability to go after the money with the guy's bank account, they just prefer not to get themselves mixed in.
I don't remember the specific BTR but, SOMEWHERE in the BTR forum, someone lamented the same thing (that the best they could hope for would be a hold on the account). Based on my advice, similar to what I said above, they pressured PayPal... who caved in and gave him a refund, presumably debiting the scammers bank account.
Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.
Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.
I think what this situation needs is some imagination.
"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell
Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.
someone earlier wrote wrote: Paypal pretty much protects you from getting ripped off, so its really a no brainer.
I see this sentiment a lot and it is just not accurate. PayPal is good, but if the other party makes a cash grab and run, they will do nothing for you. I speak from experience. If the other party does not have any funds in their account, PayPal can only put a hold on future funds. Now if you paid by credit card through PayPal, they will recommend you file a claim with your credit card company. But if you paid with direct bank payment or exiting funds, you are likely just at a loss.
(edited because I misquoted starslayer)
Not true. PayPal *can* do something about it... they just try really hard not to.
Some time, when you've got the time, check out their TOS. when you sign up, yo give them the right to take money from your BANK ACCOUNT if you owe them money. That means the other guy did this, too.
So, really, they do have the ability to go after the money with the guy's bank account, they just prefer not to get themselves mixed in.
I don't remember the specific BTR but, SOMEWHERE in the BTR forum, someone lamented the same thing (that the best they could hope for would be a hold on the account). Based on my advice, similar to what I said above, they pressured PayPal... who caved in and gave him a refund, presumably debiting the scammers bank account.
Eric
Hey MM, I just saw this quote below from you in a thread back in 2009 (is that like back in the USSR?).
MagickalMemories wrote:Don't be fooled about the protections that PayPal offers. It's nearly nonexistant.
If you pay him , then he empties that account, you won't get Jack Squat back.
A partly painted army is worth LESS than an unpainted army. I might not be able to duplicate your painting. I might not like your painting or colors. So I would need to strip the models. That's work. So its worth less.
If you are selling a "painted" army, make sure its completely finished. And that includes the bases.
Or expect to heavily discount.
Some people think assembled figures are great too. Someone might not like the weapons or how you assembled. I would not pay 75% retail for assembled figures. I can get new on sprue with all bits for that.
If you are a new member don't expect a proven member with years on here & hundreds of references to pay you first. Bite the bullet & prove yourself. Trust is earned.
Hey MM, I just saw this quote below from you in a thread back in 2009 (is that like back in the USSR?).
MagickalMemories wrote:Don't be fooled about the protections that PayPal offers. It's nearly nonexistant.
If you pay him , then he empties that account, you won't get Jack Squat back.
Either it was a change in PayPal policies or a closer read. You're talking about 3 years and a lot of experience in that time.
PayPal's TOS that EVERYONE has to agree to when starting their account has verbiage in there allowing them to debit your bank account if your PayPal account goes negative. So, they refund your money, his account goes negative, they debit his bank account.
I can't place the BTR, but I've seen it happen before, based on that advice from me. Once the OP of that BTR pressed the PayPal rep's about that part of the TOS, they caved. You've just got to know their rules well enough to use them and not give up.
In relation to a CLOSED PayPal account, though, I don't know how my above example would work. I haven't looked at the TOS recently, and I don't know if they have anything in there allowing them to debit your bank account for a negative CLOSED PayPal account (though, I would think they'd have it).
Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.
Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.
I think what this situation needs is some imagination.
"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell
Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.
- I find "higher rating ships first" to be an elegantly simple yet so-far screwproof rule, that I always mention when selling Bartertown to non-users (which I do aplenty);
- on sales, though, I would only ship before payment if the buyer had literally hundreds of good references, besides their higher quantity relative to mine;
- if you can't be bothered to haggle, I don't see what Bartertown could offer that more traditional retailers could not (or at least online ones);
- other factors reflect on the trade value, like very disparate shipping - if I'm trading a book for a miniature, and the book weights 1kg vs the miniature's 13g;
- if you're somehow offended by lowballing, then specify your comfort price zone in the listing, otherwise it is just "guess the number I'm thinking";
- if you're offended by people juggling several offers then commit to buy immediately, otherwise "first come first served" won't make me lose a significantly better deal;
- painted does mean cheaper for me, as I just collect and paint so there's no point in keeping other people's paintjobs even if they're awesome, but I understand how someone who games but hates painting would find well-painted minis advantageous;
- not all new miniatures are worth MSRP trade value, and not all OOP miniatures are rare (actually, most aren't);
- I understand not trading huge things internationally, because shipping for heavy lots is abusively expensive, but I can't shake the feeling that most people who downright refuse to trade ANYTHING outside their country are just xenophobic and ignorant, with this perception that other countries are legally challenged pirate states populated by morally inferior people. Case by case, alright, it is sometimes unworthy to ship internationally, but by saying that you won't even bother to look into it you're just blocking off a huge slice of potential interest, besides showing smallmindedness;
That last one is noticiably a pet peeves of mine, but the one bad habit I find the most infuriating, and judging from a lot signatures it is a very common one, is:
- bloody FINISH WHAT YOU START - if you inquire about an item, "no, thanks" is as important as "yes, please" (at least as far as future trades are concerned).
If you feel that my offer is lowballingly cheapass, say so instead of silently expecting me to go "Oh, sorry for that lowball, here's my actual offer!".
Anyone with "lowball offers will be ignored" in their signature deserves fellatio from a dire wolf.
These guidelines are how I try to conduct my business here, built on my squalid 2 years of being a BTownsman.
- I understand not trading huge things internationally, because shipping for heavy lots is abusively expensive, but I can't shake the feeling that most people who downright refuse to trade ANYTHING outside their country are just xenophobic and ignorant, with this perception that other countries are legally challenged pirate states populated by morally inferior people. Case by case, alright, it is sometimes unworthy to ship internationally, but by saying that you won't even bother to look into it you're just blocking off a huge slice of potential interest, besides showing smallmindedness;
I almost never trade outside N. America. I can assure you, there's no xenophobia involved. For me, it's MOSTLY coincidental. SOME foreign countries just aren't worth dealing with. If I can't get my package to your country tracked 9and, on some, you can't), I'm not doing a deal.
If it's a small trade and we're covering our own shipping, I'm probably not interested. Shipping outside US and N. America gets expensive. If I wanted to spend $35, I'd just buy that new box of models. LOL
The US Post Office has a system where you can buy postage online at a cheaper rate. That makes it very easy for some people to just pay the postage & drop the models off. They just might not find it to be "worth the hassle" of having to do the extra stuff involved with international shipping (that's strictly hypothetical, mind you).
Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.
Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.
I think what this situation needs is some imagination.
"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell
Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.
