Bizarre post office problem, need help

[spiralingcadaver]

So, I just sent models to someone (details don't matter). 12 models and some cards, models in bubble wrap, cards in a sleeve, box is firmly packed (no rattling) without bulging.

He gets them, there are three models, and some hinges (I don't have pics to show this yet).

Now, some of the models got there, so I didn't mix up two addresses (I've had that happen once), and my wife was there when I was packing the models up, so she can confirm that I didn't put hinges in my own box like some crazy person. I dropped off the box myself.

All I can think of is the box was opened and its contents were replaced. I found these addresses

http://www.uspsoig.gov/hotline.htm
http://www.uspsoig.gov/contact.htm

to report theft and fraud within the postal system. Is there anything else that even remotely makes sense? Is there any other recourse that makes sense? Please respond or PM me if you have advice, especially if you've had something like this happen to you.

Thanks in advance.

[kturock]

1. Was the box opened or mark damaged when it was delivered?

2. Was it insured?

3. What type of box did you use? [thickness. priority mail box. et c.]

4. How was it sealed? [what type of tape did you use?] [masking tape, duct tape metal foil tape, and thin scotch tape are worthless. also please don't say you used string or wrapped the box in paper. worse than worthless, but the cause of problems.]



If the box wasn't damaged or marked damaged, I'd say your trading partner is lying.
It's standard procedure for whoever finds/gets/handles a packaged that's damaged, they mark it found opened/damaged and seal it. That way the person handleing it can show it was damaged before it got to them.

As much as it breaks peoples bubble here on B-town, most people think [know] gaming [toys] are worthless. To randlomly open a package and steal some toys from the box isn't worth the effort.

EVERY post office building is under 24 hour survilence. With cameras & observation windows. [with 2 way mirrors & microphones.]
Theft of mail is grounds for instant dismissal. That's lose of job, retirement and mandatory jail time.

With jewelry, cell phones and other expensive items, also all the persnol info, blank checks and such; toys aren't worth the effort.

[spiralingcadaver]

1- the guy said that the box was surprisingly easy to open, no signs of damage

2- nope :/

3- priority flat rate, and the adhesive held

4- see 3

I might be suspicious, but I've actually done a much bigger sale with the same guy before, and we've regularly been in contact.

And I totally hear you about people regarding minis as worthless, but, well, I dunno.

[kturock]

Those boxes are either closed or not. That tape doesn't release and reseal.
Still sounds like BS to me.

IF he feels it was tampered with, then it's up to him to file a claim. ANd if he's lying, he'll be the one arrested for filing a false claim.

Since it wasn't insured, he can be a #*)& and force you to replace what's lost.
YOU are responsible for the way things are packed and replacement if their lost or stolen, since you didn't insure it.

What I always tell people who ask about insurance:
If it's worth over $10, insure it.
If it's not, and it get's lost, then it's not a big deal to replace.
If it's not worth the couple bucks to insure it, it's not worth your time to complain if it gets lost or stolen.

[spiralingcadaver]

We've already talked about it, and we've come up with a fair way of dealing with it if the USPS doesn't recognize the breach in conduct, I trust the guy fine, he's been amicable and thorough about all of it, so I'm still pretty mystified about the condition.

Re: opening, it seems as if the side/end might have been tampered with (rather than the front).

Insurance would have been good, but this has nothing to do with handling, but what I consider obvious theft. I've just never had something like this happen before.

[kturock]

So it sounds like it got crushed on the machine. Loose items were found [hinges] and put in a box that was damaged. [if it's true.] I have priority boxes at the house. Once sealed, they don't open unless ripped. That's they way they're designed and the reasoned they're designed that way. To show if it's been opened.

You people really don't expect someone to lose a $40K+ a year job over some toys, do you? 20 years worth of retirement & health benefits for toys. Unreal.
You have no idea of the level of survialince.

It's like catching cops stealing from a kids lemonade stand.

The people who steal, steal big. Not a few dollars worth of toys.

Insurance covers theft & damage. No matter who does it.

I would like to see pictures of the box. To try to discern what, if, it was damaged or tampered with.

[spiralingcadaver]

I'm understanding that, if your hypothesis were true, there would be some sort of note from the USPS noting damage. Like I said, the front seal wasn't open.

No, I don't expect it, but some people are nuts (I had a relative who was both a kleptomaniac and a postal worker, 2 + 2 = not all postal workers are rational).

I'm asking for a better shot of said box.

[ancientsociety]

You people really don't expect someone to lose a $40K+ a year job over some toys, do you? 20 years worth of retirement & health benefits for toys. Unreal.
You have no idea of the level of survialince...
The people who steal, steal big. Not a few dollars worth of toys.

THIS.

Kturock isn't exagerrating when he says no one would risk a $40K+/year, steady job with great retirement benefits in this economy for a few metal miniatures. It's just not going to happen.

Now, had said box gone entirely "missing" from a post office, then it's a possibility.

The other trader's story just stretches credulity to it's breaking point.

[kturock]

What really makes me ask "why? & what?" is the fact that he received hindges.

If someone is going to steal, why replace it with anything?

If you just rip the box open, it could be 'explained' as having been damged in handling and the items lost or destroyed.
or even not to have a box left at all, with nothing delivered.

IF something was put 'back' in, meaning the box was crushed, but just slightly, and stuff fell out, and some well-meaning, employee THOUGHT they were putting the items into the correct box, but weren't. That would almost make sense. I'm not saying it doesn't happen.

I mean, yes, theft does happen. By USPS employees, by contract employees [people who work for other companies hired by USPS, like some carriers, truck drivers], by airline luggage handlers, and even people who steal from mailboxes.

But to steal toys. [a low value item] Iphones, Ipads, cellphones, jewelry, blank checks, all types of personal info, charge cards & numbers, jump drives, car alarm remotes, garage door remotes, legal documents, even cash are worth more than plastic or metal minis.

It just doesn't make sense. The odds are, that the only people who handled the box, who would be interested in the items, were the 2 traders. Trust me. In the 23+ years I've been at USPS, I can count on 1 hand the number of gamers I know or have met. Even counting WoW players and PS3 and such, then number is under 20. MY area had over 2000 employess at one time. Now it's down to about half that. And only a few gamers. Only 1 other who's played 40k.

[spiralingcadaver]

Okay, I get you like the USPS. The other guy and I have worked out how we're going to handle the situation, and I trust him.

I started this to try to get advice on how to handle it, not to discuss the morality of individuals or institutions, so I'd ask that this thread be locked if there are no helpful suggestions.

[kturock]

What do you want for a suggestion?

You say you sent a box.
The box was received, possibly damaged.
Supposedly items are missing and other items were in they place.

What do you want?

How to accuse someone of theft?
Who?
How?
And why would they replace items with hinges?


You say you trust the other trader. OK Fine. So what's left?

To accuse someone you know even less and is unknown. A phantom thief.
It's always easy to accuse the unknown.
Governments have done it for years. All of the adversaies in wars are known my derogity slang terms to dehumanise them. It's easier to kill them or want them dead.

Is this what you want to hear;
some unknown postal worker or contractor, stole your minis and replaced them with hinges.
Just because he/she can.

[spiralingcadaver]

Okay, I've already asked this be closed, I'm not interested in hostility towards myself or the other trader. Please, just stop.

[Ironhide]

Seriously? This is the internet. You want to believe your trade partner, fine. As for me, pics or it didn't happen.