How much information?

[HarlequinZero]

Recently I found a trade ad with some things I was interested in. As I often do in such situations I sent a PM to the concerned party, (who I will leave nameless,) inquiring about a possible trade. The original poster read my PM a few hours later and proceeded to not reply. I waited a day for a response that never came. At this point I was starting to get irritated as one of my biggest pet peeves is people who read PMs and then don't respond. As such, I sent him the following PM:

Hey, you know, if you don't want to deal with me, that's fine. However, at least give me the courtesy of a reply with a "yes" or "no." I saw you already read my PM yesterday, so I know that's not the issue.

To which the nameless trader responded with the following:

Well, I was waiting to see on a couple people that were interested in that stuff that got in before you, so I could give you a good answer. But if you are that frantic that a day or two is a huge deal, I'll thank you for your interest and pass.

Good day to you, sir!

Needless to say, I found the attitude a bit irritating, but I PM'd him back with my suggestion of what I would do in a similar situation.

Well, it's usually common courtesy to let someone know what's up after you've read a PM. In this case you could have simply said the following:

"Hey, I got a couple of people who have already expressed interest in those things. However, if nothing comes of those deals I'll get back to you in a couple of days."

Would have taken all of 15 seconds to write that out, (which is what I do whenever in a similar situation,) and shown me that you weren't simply ignoring me. I mean, is it that onerous to write a short note?

And then he answered back with this:

Ya know, it's not a real heavy burden, but also, is it that big of a deal to wait a day or two for an answer about a trade of little toy soldiers?

I guess my sun just doesn't rise and set by my dealings here. I would rather send (or receive) a substantive answer than a "i don't really know anything now, but I may soon."

Maybe I'm just weird.

And that's where I let it stand because it was fairly obvious neither of us was going to change our opinion on the subject.

So, that's where this thread comes in. I thought an outside opinion on the topic would be interesting as both I and the other trader are established individuals. (He has roughly 100 more ref. points that I do.)

The question I pose to the readers is this, if you were in my shoes which of the above options would you prefer? Would you prefer getting a note right off letting you know that the other party is not ignoring you and is simply waiting to talk to a few other people first? Or would you rather wait for a detailed message telling you exactly what was up, but having to sit around for a few days after your initial PM was read while not knowing if the other person has any interest in contacting you or not?

-HZ

[gpfredette]

Good day,

It is an interesting deliema.

If it was me I would prefere the first - have them let me know they are waiting to hear from other traders and they will get in touch with me as soon as they have something to make a deal with.

I wouldn't mind the second as long as I eventually got some sort of communication - yea or nay I would be happy.

IMO I found your follow up PM a little harsh (no offence meant) - I think that is why he went on the defensive and threw you the screw ball.

Thank you,

[MagickalMemories]

Yeah.
I think I need to echo Gerry here, pretty much.

IMO, communication is imperative. If I sent a PM to someone and didn't get back to me in a day or two, I'm just not likely to be interested in the trade anymore.

That said, I almost NEVER look to see if someone's read my PM. Not on trades. I just wait out a response.


Eric

[blackspade]

I teeter between the two actually.

I personally try to respond right away, but sometimes I need to think about a response for awhile before I reply.
I do find it pretty irritating if I don't hear anything back after 2 days.
Not responding at all is a quick way get on my personal 'trade with caution' list for having poor communication skills.
A definate red flag for future trades.

[PhoenixEnvy]

People lead busy lives, something I can speak to personally, and if one misses a PM or decides one doesn't have time to respond to it, it might cost that person a deal. That's a risk one can take, and one's choice to make. Communication is imperative, and I personally make every effort to respond, but I never expect a response to every PM I send, and I certainly don't check to see if someone has read a PM unless it's an ongoing discussion and time sensitive. That just seems.. aggressive, for lack of a better word. To me, HZ, your PMs seem to echo a certain entitlement or arrogance, and I would have responded in the same way. At the very least, it was flat out rude, which is counterproductive given that the message revolved around courtesy. There is nothing I dislike more on this forum than someone else telling me what (their version of) common courtesy is, especially when it's not as common as they believe, or when that person is instructing or scolding me rather than making a request. Communication isn't just responding in a timely manner. More importantly, it's making clear both parties expectations and desires to avoid conflicts like this in the first place.

If we're going to coach on good manners, we should display them ourselves. A more suitable inquiry, to me anyway, may have been something more like "I noticed that you read my PM, and I'm eager to hear back from you. Could you please respond as soon as it is convenient?" This tells the recipient a) Why you are sending another PM and b) What action you would like to see. Alternately, the PM shown above tells the recipient that the sender is angry (and not for a reason the recipient may at all understand) and feels that he is owed something (a response), which pretty much describes the typical problem retail customer that so many people in that industry encounter and no one wants to deal with. If it is such an enormous pet peeve of yours (and pet peeve, by the way, means something that bothers you personally and isn't universal, so it's not really fair to be disproportionately upset with someone over your pet peeve) to not receive a timely response, in your initial PM, why not simply add "Please respond to this PM to let me know that you've received it and are considering my offer, or if you would rather pass." This way, at the very least, you've made a polite request of your potential trade partner and, assuming it goes unanswered, you have a bit more ground upon which to stand to support your ire.

Cheers,
Michael

[HarlequinZero]

@PhoenixEnvy

Well, let me answer back to this. Yes, I was peeved. I admitted that in my initial post. I wasn't defending my tone. Yes, it was a little caustic. The whole point of this post was to ask a question, not to attempt to defend my tone. Although, if the person I was in communication with reads this, know that I am sorry. I will try to keep a better rein on my temper in the future. (I WILL still ask for PMs though if someone reads my PMs and doesn't respond. Sorry, I can't change that part of me. )

However,PhoenixEnvy, you seem to imply that if I send someone a PM I have no right to feel entitled to a response. This is where I have to disagree with you. Now, if I was PM'ing someone as part of my duty here where the PM was just something out of the blue, (i.e. checking a reference or asking about an old deal,) then no, I really wouldn't expect a response because there was nothing setting up the conversation. Heck, the person may not check their PM box or even log on for ages. I have no problem with that sort of thing. In this instance, though, I wasn't entering into something like a cold call. When a person puts up a trade ad they are esentially looking to initiate contact with other traders, yes? I mean, that's the whole purpose these boards exist. My opinion is that once a person puts up a trade ad they have initiated dialogue. They're saying either that they have something they want to get rid of or that they are looking for something they want to acquire. Then, when someone like you or I sends a PM to them we are responding to their ad. That's why people who don't respond in a timely fashion to a PM, to an ad they posted, rub me the wrong way. Now, if he hadn't READ my PM for like a week, but then responded to the PM promptly I wouldn't have a problem. I'm not that crazy.

To use your own analogy of a retail shop. Imagine a small shop where a manager decides to run a sale. He puts out advertisements announcing the sale. Then a customer comes into the store all excited about the sale. He asks questions about the sale and the manager just ignores him. Flat out ignores the customer. The manager solicited people to come into his store and buy things only to ignore the customers when they come in. If you were that customer what would be your reaction? I mean, your analogy is flawed considering no one here is actually doing this as a business, (well, except our advertisers of course,) but the comparisson cuts both ways. If I am an angry, ranting customer,(which I want to add only came about AFTER I was ignored for a day,) then the person I was dealing with was a lax employee. (But thank you PhoenixEnvy for your virtual slap. )

I don't know. I can see both sides of the argument. I know I was rude and that probably exacerbated things. I admit that. But what I'm inquiring about, as stated at the end of the original post, is which do you think is more appropriate? Answering a PM ASAP after reading it with a very short little explanation of what's going on. (Even if you have to tell the other person they need to wait a day or two.) Or waiting days to get back to a person to give them a more concrete answer?

[Norseman]

I go between the two myself. If it is a good offer or a person that I will most likely make the deal with I will always get back to them right away. However if it is a poor offer or I think I will not be dealing with them. I may wait and see for a day before I get back to them. Sometimes i forget all together. Not intentionally...Just that I have a terrible memory and do most of my trading at work where I get distracted with stuff I am actually SUPPOSED to be doing. LOL

[Ironhide]

Ok, this is not going to go anywhere good.

People have differing views on what are good manners. No one is going to agree here. Just keep these points in mind:

1. We weren't all raised the same way.
2. No response equals no interest.
3. Be aware that your attitude and the way you conduct business reflects how others will respond to you.
4. This is the internet, when people log on, they most often leave their manners at the door.

These are my opinions. YMMV.

[MagickalMemories]

Excellent points, IH.
Excellent.

Of them all, I think I only have a problem with #4. That's the one that really gets to me.

Some people wouldn't be so brave without their anonymity.

Eric

[Norseman]

Love this theory

[JohnHwangBT]

Recently I found a trade ad with some things I was interested in. I sent a PM to the concerned party, ... The original poster read my PM a few hours later and proceeded to not reply. I waited a day for a response that never came.

if you were in my shoes ...

If I were in your shoes, I'd have waited an extra day before PMing, and simply noted that I was interested, and then asked whether they wanted to do a deal or not.

If still no reply, move on.

If I touch a nerve like you did, apologize and move on.

It's toy soldiers, not life or death.

[Ironhide]

Love this theory

I'm so stealing that picture.