Trading practices

[UrbinoPrince]

I am happy to deal with you. Simple guidelines- Lower rated ships first on trades unless we have dealt with each other before and agree. Sales- If I am buying from you I will pay and you then ship irregardless of rating. If you are buying from me you pay and then I will ship regardless of rating. If we can't do this then nothing personal , C'est la guerre, and have a nice day!

Is this standard practice? Regardless, it makes me want to tick off this guy. If so, how would you deal with it or restate it? I would tend to if my item was rare or scarce insist on this if in comparison for the item I am switching/trading for.

[MagickalMemories]

Well, you haven't really given this post any real context, so I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're looking for.

I think I have an idea, though, and I'll try to see if I can't address it.

Bartertown has no rules regarding trades, other than (a) you should complete any trades you agree to in a timely fashion and (b)... Well, that's about it.
We don't dictate the minutia (who ships first, how you ship or package your stuff, what you charge, what shipping type you use, etc.

That said, there are some commonly used practices that many (if not most) active traders adhere to:

Lower rating ships first. Regardless of whether you're buying or selling or trading, the one who's better established his trustworthiness is the one who takes less of a "risk." He's proven that he is not a scammer and, if you have a very low rating, you have not yet done so.
Some traders who adhere to this philosophy make exceptions for buying & selling. Some will pay first, if they're a buyer.

You aren't obligated to trade with these people, and you're welcome to back out of the trade negotiations if this becomes a deal-breaker. He may not like it but, hopefully, he'll be understanding about the whole thing. I know that it's a deal breaker for me if a lower rated/less established trader expects me to ship or pay first.. I don't begrudge him his desires, but I will simply back away from any negotiations with no hard feelings... and I'm very vocal about the "no hard feelings" thing. I can only hope anyone else in this situation would be equally as mature.

As for how I'd deal with it... Well, i think I've made it clear. If I'm a lower rated trader, I'd ship first.

Take a look at my profile for a moment. My reference score is in the 300's. I'm a site Admin. I have thousands of posts, indicating that I spend a LOT of time, investing energy into this place.
I've established that I'm a trustworthy trader pretty soundly.

if I'm trading with someone who has more references than me, and he wants me to ship first... even if he's only doing it to give me a (playful) hard time, I'll do it without blinking. I do not make exceptions to my rule just because I am who I am.

Then again, I've been known to ship or pay first or simu-ship with lower rated traders that have a high score or who I "know" pretty well... so, it's all subjective.

Bottom line is that, although your account is 6 and a half years old, you have zero references and not even 100 posts. Many, if not most, people will expect you to ship first, regardless of purchase vs. trade.

Hope my rambling helped shed some light on the subject.


Eric

[themailedfist]

It's good that you answered him - I tried to decipher the message several times, each unsuccessful.

I think the best takeaway is that you're not forced to trade with ANYONE on Bartertown. If you don't like someone's terms, you can walk away.

However...

Being a trader with zero established reputation, you probably aren't going to find too many people willing to give you much trust. Trust has to be earned, somehow, and the common terms are most frequently how you earn it.

--Robert

[s_o_r_r_o_w]

Regardless, it makes me want to tick off this guy.

If by "tick off", you mean "work actively to annoy", I would discourage you from this course of action. First, it is clearly in bad faith. Second, I would consider it a violation of the social contract here at B-town to get along.

[MagickalMemories]

Good call, s_!


Eric

[blackspade]

My take on this is that I will pass on a potential buy if the stipulation from a lower rated trade that I pay before they send.
Like MM, I have been here since the late 90s and have worked hard to establish a high positive rating.
I am not at all inclined to send money to a trader with a rating less than mine unless I know them before I have the figures in hand.
That said, I may still make an offer, but I stipulate that they send first. They usually don't even respond.

my .02

[ancientsociety]

Is this standard practice?

Pretty much. You have 0 refs. No one knows you from Adam. It's comparatively easy to receive cash and/or items and walk away from a deal when no one knows you. Most traders have guidelines they follow to prevent this and protect their interests.

You'll find that here, as in the "real world", trust is something that is EARNED, not freely given. If you want to trade here actively, you have to follow the more established traders' guidelines.

Regardless, it makes me want to tick off this guy. If so, how would you deal with it or restate it? I would tend to if my item was rare or scarce insist on this if in comparison for the item I am switching/trading for.

Why?

Again, you have 0 refs. You don't have any room to dictate the terms of a trade.

[Ironhide]

Regardless of his trade rating, all terms of a trade are negotiable. Having said that, trying to dictate terms without the refs to back it up; will most likely end up in other traders refusing to deal with you.

I am happy to deal with you. Simple guidelines- Lower rated ships first on trades unless we have dealt with each other before and agree. Sales- If I am buying from you I will pay and you then ship irregardless of rating. If you are buying from me you pay and then I will ship regardless of rating. If we can't do this then nothing personal , C'est la guerre, and have a nice day!

I personally don't see any problem with this. What is so wrong with it?

[MagickalMemories]

I am happy to deal with you. Simple guidelines- Lower rated ships first on trades unless we have dealt with each other before and agree. Sales- If I am buying from you I will pay and you then ship irregardless of rating. If you are buying from me you pay and then I will ship regardless of rating. If we can't do this then nothing personal , C'est la guerre, and have a nice day!

I personally don't see any problem with this. What is so wrong with it?

Depending on your point of view, possibly nothing.
Some people see purchases as different than trades. Others, like myself, see cash as just another form of bartering... you're bartering CASH for **insert gamig stuff here**, rather than **insert gamig stuff here** for **insert gamig stuff here**.

A number of established traders felt that point of view (buying pays before shipment) to be reasonable until after they attempted to buy from Mr. Bartle (User ID: The_Trader). That fiasco changed their minds.


Eric

[blackspade]

A number of established traders felt that point of view (buying pays before shipment) to be reasonable until after they attempted to buy from Mr. Bartle (User ID: The_Trader). That fiasco changed their minds.

Exactly!

[Ironhide]

I understand that reasoning, but i was asking in reference to the OP's original post. It seems rather fair. If the trader knows you he is willing to make some concessions in a straight up item for item trade. If it is a case of purchasing items, then it's pretty much a buyer pays first no matter who the buyer is; including if it is the trader who has the rule.

[MagickalMemories]

I understand that reasoning, but i was asking in reference to the OP's original post. It seems rather fair. If the trader knows you he is willing to make some concessions in a straight up item for item trade. If it is a case of purchasing items, then it's pretty much a buyer pays first no matter who the buyer is; including if it is the trader who has the rule.

I understand where you're coming from, but "fair" is relative.
My personal opinion is that it isn't very fair for someone who's been here years and has amassed hundreds of refs to have to pay first, simply because it's cash, instead of a trade. It seems more fair to me that someone who's worked to prove himself or herself should get the benefit of the doubt.

This is yet another thing about BTown that I love. There's room for everyone, regardless of trading preferences.


Eric

[HarlequinZero]

I understand that reasoning, but i was asking in reference to the OP's original post. It seems rather fair. If the trader knows you he is willing to make some concessions in a straight up item for item trade. If it is a case of purchasing items, then it's pretty much a buyer pays first no matter who the buyer is; including if it is the trader who has the rule.

I understand where you're coming from, but "fair" is relative.
My personal opinion is that it isn't very fair for someone who's been here years and has amassed hundreds of refs to have to pay first, simply because it's cash, instead of a trade. It seems more fair to me that someone who's worked to prove himself or herself should get the benefit of the doubt.

This is yet another thing about BTown that I love. There's room for everyone, regardless of trading preferences.


Eric

I agree with Eric. People on here are NOT businesses. (unless they are advertisers of course.) I'm not going to send money first to a new trader who I don't know anything about. The unwashed, scruffy guy living in his mom's basement trying to sell me a Land Raider is NOT a business. I pay a business first because they are an established entity that has shown a level of trustworthiness, ( much like we try to establish on here with trade ratings,) and probably has a license and an office/store. If something goes wrong I think I have a better chance of getting restitution than with the aforementioned basement dweller. There are exceptions to every rule, but that's my personal take on why, even with cash, I insist the lower rated member go first.

[Ironhide]

Putting this into perspective, for a new guy with zero refs complaining about the above trade rule is somewhat stupid; because the above rule could work in his favor.

[starslayer]

Here is where I laugh and bid you good bye.

""If you are buying from me you pay and then I will ship regardless of rating. If we can't do this then nothing personal , C'est la guerre, and have a nice day!""

WHY in the world would anybody pay you first with absolutely no references?? No offense- but you have earned no trust here.
A member 6 years with ZERO trades? Wow. Really? I dont get it.

You can decide on any terms you like- but you will severely limit who will trade (buy) from you. Who is more likely to bail out on a deal? The new guy with 0 refs or the long-term member with 5 years & 400+ ?? Who has more to lose?

Lets do a little poll right here.
As to those who have posted on this topic- Would you send this guy $100 FIRST to buy from him with his ZERO rating?
Aye or Nay?