Eric, I apologize, but I feel as though I'm beating my head against a wall.
EZ, first of all, I don't think of this as an argument. Or, at least it didn't start that way. I considered it a disagreement of opinion, but you seem unwilling to consider anything I've said, therefore I don't feel I should expend the time explaining my point if all you are going to do is immediately counter it. This is not an argument. There is no winning. We have two different opinions, which is fine. But you can't make a statement like "Unit X is useless", have someone attempt to point out their highlights, immediately attempt to counter and refute everything they say, and then after they give up on trying to change your mind, ask them to show you how the unit is useful. I have attempted to do this. Several times. We disagree. I'm not going to waste more energy attempting to sway your opinion, because it is clearly set.
If you have seen/read the new BA dex
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Ironhide ( 92 )
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Re: If you have seen/read the new BA dex
@ EZ:I'm just saying you should take what he says with a grain of salt. He does have some good nuggets of info in there, but you just gotta sort through the self-aggrandizing.
OT: I don't like the Dco because it is too expensive, and I don't like putting all my eggs in one basket.
OT: I don't like the Dco because it is too expensive, and I don't like putting all my eggs in one basket.
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EZ mac ( 164 )
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Re: If you have seen/read the new BA dex
Listen I'm sorry reegsk I honostly WANT to find a reason to take them. I honostly do! The ways in which I have pointed them out they do not seem to be something which is worth their points. As ironhide has said they are a all the eggs in one basket, a semi tough basket, but one really expensive one.
As for not listening to your opinion you haven't exactly swayed a whole bunch either bud. I would like to understand why you choose them over other units that can be taken. This is why I want to know your army list as if I know the support you are bringing along for the ride then I will not have to guess at your use of them.
I say that assault squads are a better troop choice because they do assault well, survive (with sang preist) roughly the same amount, can take 3 meltas in their unit and 1 with the preist and do this for a lot less then a dco.
You then say that dco are a elite assault unit so I compare them to honorguard which do similar amount of damage for less points and can take out tanks and have a integrated preist.
I then do a point to wound inflicted reltation and they are similar at that level
ALL I want to know is how you build an army to come to the conclusion that the DC are THAT much better to be taken at that point level.
Is this unreasonable?
As for not listening to your opinion you haven't exactly swayed a whole bunch either bud. I would like to understand why you choose them over other units that can be taken. This is why I want to know your army list as if I know the support you are bringing along for the ride then I will not have to guess at your use of them.
I say that assault squads are a better troop choice because they do assault well, survive (with sang preist) roughly the same amount, can take 3 meltas in their unit and 1 with the preist and do this for a lot less then a dco.
You then say that dco are a elite assault unit so I compare them to honorguard which do similar amount of damage for less points and can take out tanks and have a integrated preist.
I then do a point to wound inflicted reltation and they are similar at that level
ALL I want to know is how you build an army to come to the conclusion that the DC are THAT much better to be taken at that point level.
Is this unreasonable?
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reegsk ( 492 )
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Re: If you have seen/read the new BA dex
Honestly, Ironhide, I couldn't get halfway through his mission statement before my eyes started to bleed. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but some people just don't seem to go around it in the right way. He kind of reminds me of Glenn Beck.
And I'll grant that Death Company are expensive. But they cost just the same as vanguard vets do, but are better in every way except for having Rage, and not having Heroic Intervention. . .which is horrific with Descent of Angels.
Ninja'd
EZ, it's cool. I was being rigid too, but I felt like I was on the defensive and had to be. I'm not saying Death Company are the best unit out there necessarily, but certainly one of the best units for their particular role. The big thing about them is that they can handle units with 2+ armor saves if you have enough power weapons, and they're also great against units of FNP nobs or an FNP ork blob led by Grotsnik. If ten assault marines run into a nob squad, they're going to get shredded. And I can say from experience that assault marines with a Sanguinary Priest are pretty nice, but I played two games where they bogged down in a unit of plague marines for three or four rounds of combat before one side was finally wiped out or broke. In both of those games, the death company ripped through a unit of plague marines in one round. Of course, then then got assaulted by Abbaddon and termies and. . .well, not much survives that. . .especially when Abby rolls a 6 for bonus attacks.
Anyway, the way I would (and do) field death company (which, obviously hasn't borne a ton of research as the book as been out for two weeks), is without jump packs. Fifteen points on a twenty point model is just too expensive, especially if you're going to give them extra gear. I would field a unit that looked something like this. . .
Death Company (60)
7 x Additional Death Company (140)
Power Fist (25)
4 x Power Weapons (60)
Total -- 285pts
I waffle back and forth on what to do next. A good, cheap option is a rhino with extra armor at 65 points, but you run the risk of the rhino getting popped early, and them having to footslog it under fire. A land raider is a much more reliable way to get in combat, but that's an extra 250 points plus upgrades. My current favorite is the Stormraven, and adding Lemartes to the unit. Now that adds 250 - 350 points, so you're making an almost 300 point unit a 535 - 635 point unit, but consider this. . .
-- In the other Marine books, Land Raiders are most often taken as Heavy Support and used as a transport. Buying one as a dedicated transport serves almost the same role.
-- Lemartes is 150 points, but that makes him only 25 points more than a jump pack chaplain. For 25 points you get FNP, the going crazy after taking a wound rule, and the fact that he's not an IC, so he cannot be singled out. Oh, and his crozius is master crafted. He's very worth his points as an Elites choice that doesn't take up an elites slot (in an army where the Elites choices are nasty [dreads, sang priests])
So I don't look at giving them a LR dedicated transport or Lemartes as adding to the cost of a unit. I consider it adding a special character Elites choice to a Troops unit without taking up a slot, and taking a Heavy Support choice that can only start off the table with the DC inside of it. Obviously, I can't give them a Raider and Lemartes (he has the jump pack that can't be removed), but in a Stormraven, you can fit ten DC and Lemartes, and have a good chance of getting them where you want before their transport gets popped. If I roll to deploy first, I would probably put the Raven on the board. If not, it's definitely going in reserve, unless my opponent has a sad lack of S6 or S7 long-range shooting. And I wouldn't Deep Strike it, either. . .just Turbo-boost halfway across the table from the board edge. But if you want to expend fewer points on them, stick to that 285 point unit in either a drop pod or a rhino. The weakness of the rhino I stated above. The Drop Pod, well, they have to sit there and be shot at for a turn before they can act.
The DC fill a vastly different role than any other Troops choice in the game, really. They cannot take objectives and are almost liberated by that. This means that at an event like 'Ardboyz, you can field a unit of DC that fill the role of Elite and Fast Attack close combat choices (such as Vanguard Vets and Terminators), but don't take up an Elite or Fast Attack slot. DC are the same exact cost as vanguard vets, with the same options for the same points, but are higher WS, and have FNP, Fearless and Furious Charge. Now, Vanguard Vets are cheaper when you throw in jump packs, and are insane when you consider the use of Descent of Angels and Heroic Intervention, but that's more of a pinpoint strike role, whereas DC are for blunt force trauma. Vanguard Vets are great, but I'd rather take small units and deep strike to assassinate things like command squads and heavy weapons firebases then tangle with masses of enemy troops. Terminators are also great, but they can't take Rhinos or Drop Pods, Deep Striking is always a risk, and you can't fit that many into a Land Raider (even a crusader can only fit 8, and then where does the Sang Priest go?). So they either have to have a 250 point transport, risk it with a deep strike or footslog it under fire. DC can get there faster and actually cost less, even with a power weapon each. Throw in a chaplain, lemartes or a reclusiarch, and they have the same ability as a lightning claw on the charge (re-roll wounds, no armor saves) with the same number of attacks.
They're not for everyone, certainly. One of my two potential 'ardboyz lists doesn't have any. But they can be very effective with the right setup, in the right list, with the right conveyance. IMO, DCo with packs are too expensive, too risky and will never live to see combat. Unless, of course, they're in a stormraven, but why do that when you can remove the jump packs and fit in twice as many?
And I'll grant that Death Company are expensive. But they cost just the same as vanguard vets do, but are better in every way except for having Rage, and not having Heroic Intervention. . .which is horrific with Descent of Angels.
Ninja'd
EZ, it's cool. I was being rigid too, but I felt like I was on the defensive and had to be. I'm not saying Death Company are the best unit out there necessarily, but certainly one of the best units for their particular role. The big thing about them is that they can handle units with 2+ armor saves if you have enough power weapons, and they're also great against units of FNP nobs or an FNP ork blob led by Grotsnik. If ten assault marines run into a nob squad, they're going to get shredded. And I can say from experience that assault marines with a Sanguinary Priest are pretty nice, but I played two games where they bogged down in a unit of plague marines for three or four rounds of combat before one side was finally wiped out or broke. In both of those games, the death company ripped through a unit of plague marines in one round. Of course, then then got assaulted by Abbaddon and termies and. . .well, not much survives that. . .especially when Abby rolls a 6 for bonus attacks.
Anyway, the way I would (and do) field death company (which, obviously hasn't borne a ton of research as the book as been out for two weeks), is without jump packs. Fifteen points on a twenty point model is just too expensive, especially if you're going to give them extra gear. I would field a unit that looked something like this. . .
Death Company (60)
7 x Additional Death Company (140)
Power Fist (25)
4 x Power Weapons (60)
Total -- 285pts
I waffle back and forth on what to do next. A good, cheap option is a rhino with extra armor at 65 points, but you run the risk of the rhino getting popped early, and them having to footslog it under fire. A land raider is a much more reliable way to get in combat, but that's an extra 250 points plus upgrades. My current favorite is the Stormraven, and adding Lemartes to the unit. Now that adds 250 - 350 points, so you're making an almost 300 point unit a 535 - 635 point unit, but consider this. . .
-- In the other Marine books, Land Raiders are most often taken as Heavy Support and used as a transport. Buying one as a dedicated transport serves almost the same role.
-- Lemartes is 150 points, but that makes him only 25 points more than a jump pack chaplain. For 25 points you get FNP, the going crazy after taking a wound rule, and the fact that he's not an IC, so he cannot be singled out. Oh, and his crozius is master crafted. He's very worth his points as an Elites choice that doesn't take up an elites slot (in an army where the Elites choices are nasty [dreads, sang priests])
So I don't look at giving them a LR dedicated transport or Lemartes as adding to the cost of a unit. I consider it adding a special character Elites choice to a Troops unit without taking up a slot, and taking a Heavy Support choice that can only start off the table with the DC inside of it. Obviously, I can't give them a Raider and Lemartes (he has the jump pack that can't be removed), but in a Stormraven, you can fit ten DC and Lemartes, and have a good chance of getting them where you want before their transport gets popped. If I roll to deploy first, I would probably put the Raven on the board. If not, it's definitely going in reserve, unless my opponent has a sad lack of S6 or S7 long-range shooting. And I wouldn't Deep Strike it, either. . .just Turbo-boost halfway across the table from the board edge. But if you want to expend fewer points on them, stick to that 285 point unit in either a drop pod or a rhino. The weakness of the rhino I stated above. The Drop Pod, well, they have to sit there and be shot at for a turn before they can act.
The DC fill a vastly different role than any other Troops choice in the game, really. They cannot take objectives and are almost liberated by that. This means that at an event like 'Ardboyz, you can field a unit of DC that fill the role of Elite and Fast Attack close combat choices (such as Vanguard Vets and Terminators), but don't take up an Elite or Fast Attack slot. DC are the same exact cost as vanguard vets, with the same options for the same points, but are higher WS, and have FNP, Fearless and Furious Charge. Now, Vanguard Vets are cheaper when you throw in jump packs, and are insane when you consider the use of Descent of Angels and Heroic Intervention, but that's more of a pinpoint strike role, whereas DC are for blunt force trauma. Vanguard Vets are great, but I'd rather take small units and deep strike to assassinate things like command squads and heavy weapons firebases then tangle with masses of enemy troops. Terminators are also great, but they can't take Rhinos or Drop Pods, Deep Striking is always a risk, and you can't fit that many into a Land Raider (even a crusader can only fit 8, and then where does the Sang Priest go?). So they either have to have a 250 point transport, risk it with a deep strike or footslog it under fire. DC can get there faster and actually cost less, even with a power weapon each. Throw in a chaplain, lemartes or a reclusiarch, and they have the same ability as a lightning claw on the charge (re-roll wounds, no armor saves) with the same number of attacks.
They're not for everyone, certainly. One of my two potential 'ardboyz lists doesn't have any. But they can be very effective with the right setup, in the right list, with the right conveyance. IMO, DCo with packs are too expensive, too risky and will never live to see combat. Unless, of course, they're in a stormraven, but why do that when you can remove the jump packs and fit in twice as many?
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reegsk ( 492 )
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Re: If you have seen/read the new BA dex
Oh, and since I made a half apology in that last post, which is crap, I'm sorry too.
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EZ mac ( 164 )
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Re: If you have seen/read the new BA dex
What are you taking for killen mech? Speeders, preds, dreds, razorbacks or melta units?
I honostly haven't had a chance to get my army up to snuff just because I'm finnishing up my las/plas razor back imperial fist spam list up and running for a con next month (If I had a good cam is take pics because it WILL win some kinda paint prize!).
But what I'm thinking is
1x librarian (melta pistol, mbomb, jpack)
3x sang preists (mbomb, jpack, pow wep, mpistol)
4x assault units (mbomb/ pow wep/ 2x melta, mpistol)
2x min scouts with cloaks (sniper, missile)
rest of points on typhoons for anti rhinos.
Idea is that if I'm not going first I can deepstrike with mass meltas (pop big vehicles) possibly in combat squads if needed, speeders stay in reserves and jump out to say 'hi' to transports right away.
I realize it's not overtly OP but i think I had like 6speeders at 2k but I don't have the list in front of me.
Anyway what do ya think? There is no seer council here and little nobs but mass missiles and meltas eat them decently (instant death for fnp).
I honostly haven't had a chance to get my army up to snuff just because I'm finnishing up my las/plas razor back imperial fist spam list up and running for a con next month (If I had a good cam is take pics because it WILL win some kinda paint prize!).
But what I'm thinking is
1x librarian (melta pistol, mbomb, jpack)
3x sang preists (mbomb, jpack, pow wep, mpistol)
4x assault units (mbomb/ pow wep/ 2x melta, mpistol)
2x min scouts with cloaks (sniper, missile)
rest of points on typhoons for anti rhinos.
Idea is that if I'm not going first I can deepstrike with mass meltas (pop big vehicles) possibly in combat squads if needed, speeders stay in reserves and jump out to say 'hi' to transports right away.
I realize it's not overtly OP but i think I had like 6speeders at 2k but I don't have the list in front of me.
Anyway what do ya think? There is no seer council here and little nobs but mass missiles and meltas eat them decently (instant death for fnp).
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Ironhide ( 92 )
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Re: If you have seen/read the new BA dex
Quick question: Are the inferno pistol (melta pistol) really that good since you basically have to get within 3 inches for them to be useful? Wouldn't it be better to get melta bombs or a power fist, and assault the vehicle if you are that close?
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EZ mac ( 164 )
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Re: If you have seen/read the new BA dex
I honosty like them, mostly because a pow wep, infernos pistol and melta bomb is only 10points more then a fist but has a much higher chance of doing something to a LR. Even if u arnt in 3in it's still another st 8ap 1 shot that can do something to anything. Also with jpacks you have a much higher chance of being within 3in then if u walk/ catch a ride.
Tho I also haven't had a chance to use em yet so...
Tho I also haven't had a chance to use em yet so...
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reegsk ( 492 )
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Re: If you have seen/read the new BA dex
That's my big point of indecision with the melta pistols. S8 AP1 is nice, but the 6" range and the fact that you need to get so close to melta is rough. It'll definitely take some games to see their worth.
EZ, I think it's pretty decent. You have the tactical flexibility of deploying everything, or holding everything in reserve. Jump packs and land speeders definitely give great mobility. And forty assault marines is definitely nothing to sneeze at. The only thing I could see any difficulty with are 'Nid and Ork horde lists, but again, forty FNP and Furious Charge assault marines can do a pretty good job of holding their own. One of the 'Ardboyz lists I'm considering is a similar setup, I think three full assault squads, with vindicators and meltas for anti-tank. Sadly demolishers aren't AP1 any more, but two chances to penetrate with each hit, and an effective range of 36", is pretty nice with the vindis.
I'm still going back and forth quite a bit for an exact list, but it would look something along these lines. . .
10 x Assault Marines w/Fist and 2 x Flamers
10 x Assault Marines w/Fist and 2 x Flamers
10 x Assault Marines w/Fist and 2 x Meltaguns
10 x Death Company w/Fist, 4 x Power Weapons, Lemartes
2 x Vindicators
Stormraven w/Extra Armor, TL Multi-melta, TL Lascannon
Librarian w/Jump Pack, Shield of Sanguinius, Fear of the Darkness or Unleash Rage
Librarian Dread w/Wings of Sanguinius and Shield of Sanguinius
3 x Sang Priests w/Jump Pack and Lightning Claw
I can't remember exactly what else was in there. I think one of the special character HQs, either Dante or The Sanguinor, maybe some Baal Preds, and maybe some Scouts, but I'm not 100% on that.
Also bear in mind that this list is somewhat more geared towards the lists I know I'm going to be facing. Orks (one potential footslogging horde, one bike spam or lotsa meganobs), Chaos Marines, Space Wolves, Necrons or Dark Angels, Black Templars, and probably one other Blood Angels player. So I need a good amount of power weapons or AP 2/3 stuff, which the Vindicators certainly help with. I'm definitely going to have to switch it up if I make it past prelims, but I happen to have the great fortune of knowing all of my potential opponents. The Stormraven and Vindicators are my planned anti-tank, and the unit with the two meltas. I can't remember exactly how many points there are left around, but I would like to throw in some Baals to outflank, and either burn heavy weapons out of cover or rend side armor. I'm still iffy on the flamer pred, because it's new and I haven't seen it in action. In theory it could be pretty solid, but it also has to get very close.
And alternate list I'm thinking of would feature a lot more Rhinos and maybe some land raiders. After all, being able to take Raiders as dedicated transports, and thus deploying them during a Dawn of War scenario. I like the concept of splitting between armor and jump packs, or dropping a LOT of armor (most AV 13 or higher) to make most of their shooting useless.
EZ, I think it's pretty decent. You have the tactical flexibility of deploying everything, or holding everything in reserve. Jump packs and land speeders definitely give great mobility. And forty assault marines is definitely nothing to sneeze at. The only thing I could see any difficulty with are 'Nid and Ork horde lists, but again, forty FNP and Furious Charge assault marines can do a pretty good job of holding their own. One of the 'Ardboyz lists I'm considering is a similar setup, I think three full assault squads, with vindicators and meltas for anti-tank. Sadly demolishers aren't AP1 any more, but two chances to penetrate with each hit, and an effective range of 36", is pretty nice with the vindis.
I'm still going back and forth quite a bit for an exact list, but it would look something along these lines. . .
10 x Assault Marines w/Fist and 2 x Flamers
10 x Assault Marines w/Fist and 2 x Flamers
10 x Assault Marines w/Fist and 2 x Meltaguns
10 x Death Company w/Fist, 4 x Power Weapons, Lemartes
2 x Vindicators
Stormraven w/Extra Armor, TL Multi-melta, TL Lascannon
Librarian w/Jump Pack, Shield of Sanguinius, Fear of the Darkness or Unleash Rage
Librarian Dread w/Wings of Sanguinius and Shield of Sanguinius
3 x Sang Priests w/Jump Pack and Lightning Claw
I can't remember exactly what else was in there. I think one of the special character HQs, either Dante or The Sanguinor, maybe some Baal Preds, and maybe some Scouts, but I'm not 100% on that.
Also bear in mind that this list is somewhat more geared towards the lists I know I'm going to be facing. Orks (one potential footslogging horde, one bike spam or lotsa meganobs), Chaos Marines, Space Wolves, Necrons or Dark Angels, Black Templars, and probably one other Blood Angels player. So I need a good amount of power weapons or AP 2/3 stuff, which the Vindicators certainly help with. I'm definitely going to have to switch it up if I make it past prelims, but I happen to have the great fortune of knowing all of my potential opponents. The Stormraven and Vindicators are my planned anti-tank, and the unit with the two meltas. I can't remember exactly how many points there are left around, but I would like to throw in some Baals to outflank, and either burn heavy weapons out of cover or rend side armor. I'm still iffy on the flamer pred, because it's new and I haven't seen it in action. In theory it could be pretty solid, but it also has to get very close.
And alternate list I'm thinking of would feature a lot more Rhinos and maybe some land raiders. After all, being able to take Raiders as dedicated transports, and thus deploying them during a Dawn of War scenario. I like the concept of splitting between armor and jump packs, or dropping a LOT of armor (most AV 13 or higher) to make most of their shooting useless.
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porkuslime ( 3094 )
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Re: If you have seen/read the new BA dex
No experience with the new BA dex, BUT..
I have a Canoness with Inferno Pistol and Jump Pack for tank hunting in the Order of St Ursula.
She can reliably blow up tanks with that thing.. and then almost always takes a hit to the resulting explosion.
So .. maybe it would work better for insta-gib-ing T4 opponents instead, before charging in?
I have a Canoness with Inferno Pistol and Jump Pack for tank hunting in the Order of St Ursula.
She can reliably blow up tanks with that thing.. and then almost always takes a hit to the resulting explosion.
So .. maybe it would work better for insta-gib-ing T4 opponents instead, before charging in?
2+2=5 for sufficiently large values of 2.
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EZ mac ( 164 )
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Re: If you have seen/read the new BA dex
We have (on average)
3x GK LR spam/guard mix
4x Eldar (3x mounted, 1x footdar)
2x nids
6x guard (4mech, 2x walking)
3x tau (broadside spam/crisis spam)
4x sm (2x Sal Spam, 1x bike, 1x razorback spam (me) soon some BA)
2x chaos marines (I have 1 of plauge marines, other khorne)
1x 'cron
so yeah besides my double up our average is around 18-20 with big mech, there are other armies that people have (like nob orks/ hrd orks) but that's our basic breakdown.
So overkilling a marine unit to me has a lot less use here as we need mech killing more then killing a marine unit 3times over like the DCo will.
3x GK LR spam/guard mix
4x Eldar (3x mounted, 1x footdar)
2x nids
6x guard (4mech, 2x walking)
3x tau (broadside spam/crisis spam)
4x sm (2x Sal Spam, 1x bike, 1x razorback spam (me) soon some BA)
2x chaos marines (I have 1 of plauge marines, other khorne)
1x 'cron
so yeah besides my double up our average is around 18-20 with big mech, there are other armies that people have (like nob orks/ hrd orks) but that's our basic breakdown.
So overkilling a marine unit to me has a lot less use here as we need mech killing more then killing a marine unit 3times over like the DCo will.
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reegsk ( 492 )
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Re: If you have seen/read the new BA dex
Yeah, against that lineup, I'd definitely pack on the meltas. Thankfully, an armored list wouldn't fare too poorly out this way, as we won't have to worry about broadside spam (Oblit spam, yes). I will have to worry about berserkers, plague marines and potential ork spam. And not too many people have a ton of land raiders (I have two, and that's above average), so I don't have to worry about popping a lot of armor 14.
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EZ mac ( 164 )
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Re: If you have seen/read the new BA dex
Lucky bugger... We've had a turny were 4people had 2 or more, one even brought 4! one constantly brings 2with GK termies and the takes 4-6 storm trooper melta or plas chimera squads. Our guard people bring between 4-6 russes or a 1/2 dozen valk/ the gun one with melts vets.
Oh and the most annoying thing is getting shot by 9twin linked st 10 ap 1 shots from broadsides in a turn. Because if you want to take rhinos or some kind of light transport u have to count on playing 1of the 3 of them. Which is why I have jpackers over rhinos
Oh and the most annoying thing is getting shot by 9twin linked st 10 ap 1 shots from broadsides in a turn. Because if you want to take rhinos or some kind of light transport u have to count on playing 1of the 3 of them. Which is why I have jpackers over rhinos
Lowest rating ships first even from payments
40k is NOT chess! It's yatzee... Roll more dice and roll higher and you win!
Leave feedback. It helps build the BT community. It's the polite thing to do. If I owe you a ref - please PM with details so I can fix that oversight.
40k is NOT chess! It's yatzee... Roll more dice and roll higher and you win!
Leave feedback. It helps build the BT community. It's the polite thing to do. If I owe you a ref - please PM with details so I can fix that oversight.
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reegsk ( 492 )
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Re: If you have seen/read the new BA dex
Well, there's one potential Tau player, but I don't know if he's going to roll with Tau. Broadside spam is a major nuisance, especially if you want to take transports. S'why I'm planning on rolling a Librarian with Shield and a Librarian Dread with Shield. Since it's used in your opponent's turn, you don't have to be an Epistolary to use it and another power, such as Wings, and albeit it's only a 5+ Cover Save, but it's better than nothing. It's a great insurance policy in case you deploy first, then your opponent seizes, you can give yourself at least some protection before your transports get popped before moving.
I'm curious about the Honor Guard. I always shied away from Command Squads in regular marine lists because I played shooty. They look pretty nasty, but is it worth the risk to stick your character in a five-man unit? I was considering a Captain, so he also gets the +1 Attack from the banner, but I didn't want to jeopardize him.
I'm curious about the Honor Guard. I always shied away from Command Squads in regular marine lists because I played shooty. They look pretty nasty, but is it worth the risk to stick your character in a five-man unit? I was considering a Captain, so he also gets the +1 Attack from the banner, but I didn't want to jeopardize him.
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EZ mac ( 164 )
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Re: If you have seen/read the new BA dex
I was pribly just going to use them as 2melta, 2pow wep myself but maybe with the standard so I could give the librarian an extra attack (with st 10) so he would roll with 5atacks on the charge.
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40k is NOT chess! It's yatzee... Roll more dice and roll higher and you win!
Leave feedback. It helps build the BT community. It's the polite thing to do. If I owe you a ref - please PM with details so I can fix that oversight.
40k is NOT chess! It's yatzee... Roll more dice and roll higher and you win!
Leave feedback. It helps build the BT community. It's the polite thing to do. If I owe you a ref - please PM with details so I can fix that oversight.