If you have seen/read the new BA dex

[Brian Adair]

Hey folks,

I know this might be a bit premature, but I am debating on creating a new BA army. I like to have each army I play do something a bit different- my space wolves are footsloggers, drop podders and counterattackers, my eldar are shooting mech, and I was thinking of trying out a BA force for the closecombat- and I love the concept of DC and I really like Baal Predator models. So my question is this- could I do an all DC army (knowing I can't take objectives which is okay with me) that utilizes lots of DC and Baals and what would I take? I am not worried about losing games (it seems like I could tie alot ) and in 1/3 of the games KP, it seems DC should fare quite well. What I am lacking is what characters or special abilities would I need (and I know you can't post point costs but I dont even know where to begin with them) so

Lemartes- model kicks but, dont know if I need him or not but I would want to take the JP off- possible?

Lots of DC riding in rhinos! Do they need the TH upgrade? They have furious charge and grenades correct? Can they get meltas? Do priests help them at all?
Baal Preds- is it true they scout? Take 3 with assault cannons or should I put the flamer on some?
Dreads- hmm, I should probably take 1 or so to go with the DC theme but how to use them- drop pod (I already have drop podding SW) or a StormRaven and drop one squad of DC and a dread in ?
I was thinking 2 stormravems, 2 dreads, 2 units of DC and Lemartes then a few rhinos and Baals- could I afford that in 1850? I am not the best at building lists for competitiveness but would at least like something that could kick a little but and use lots of DC.
Thanks!

[EZ mac]

In the new BA you can take one unit of death co 3-30man (from 60pts to 2000pts+) each costs 20pts a dude, 15 for a jpack, 30 for a hammer, fist is 25, 15 for a power wep, infernus pistol is 15 (every 5 guys=1pistol), can take lemartes for 150pts as a UNIT UPGRADE (if he gets wounded he gets 5A, 5Strength). Units can take any trasport (not sure on back)

You can take the big axe guy which allows you to take up to 3units of dco.

For every 5dco u take u can take 1 dco furioso dred which is also a troop choice.

Nothing dco can hold objectives including dreds.


Orrrrrrr..... You just run a sanguary preist which gives all units in 6inches fnp and furious charge (he costs 50pts base for a 1w indipendent character) and you can take0-3 for each elites slot (upto 9)

if u want a dco army do reg assault marines with sang preist (18point jpackers instead of 35 with all the same rules minus 1WS)
or thammer assault termies with fnp

[EVIL INC]

I have not seen the codex but in all earlier editions, the death company was always gathered into a single unit. Will that really change to where you can have multiple units of them?

[reegsk]

As EZ said, Death Company are a 0 – 1 Troops choice, between 3 and 30 models for 20 points apiece. So the only inaccuracy is the fact that there is a limit to the unit’s size. If you want multiple units in rhinos, Astaroth is a must, which is 250 points right there. Lemartes is a unit upgrade for the Death Company, and you cannot remove his jump pack. Death Company dreads are pretty disgusting, though. WS5, with 3 attacks base (4 with two weapons), Furious Charge and they ignore all Crew Stunned and Crew Shaken. There’s also an amazing new piece of wargear, Blood Talons. They’re dread CCWs and must be taken in a pair. They count as Lightning Claws (so no armor save and re-roll failed rolls To Wound), and if you have two of them, you gain an additional attack for each unsaved wound you cause. And each of these attacks can also generate additional attacks.

So you could take one block of thirty death company (preferably on foot. . .that unit would cost 450 points in jump packs alone!), five DC dreads and then whatever else you can fit it. Just the dreads and foot-slogging DC would be a total of 1,250 points. That’s with no power weapons/fists or thunder hammers in the DC unit.

Honestly, EZ’s plan is the best route. A full unit of Assault Marines (which are Troops and thus a scoring unit) will run you about 225 points with a fist for the sarge and two flamers, which is the cost of about five death company with jump packs and one fist. They are one WS and one Attack lower, but they also don’t suffer from the Rage special rule (where you have to run right after the nearest enemy unit). A savvy player would just run crap transports/units and skimmers past you so your entire DC army would have to then turn around to kill it.

When it comes down to it, yes, the new Angels codex has some narsty stuff. But everything is so expensive, you really can’t take a lot of it. Death Company are too cost prohibitive, especially now that you don’t get any of them for free. I’d be much happier with assault marines and sanguinary priests, plus a bunch of Librarian Dreads.

Ninja’d – In an ordinary list, no. But I believe Astaroth (or one of the other characters) allows you to take multiple units.

[EZ mac]

My list is:

librarian-jpack, infernus pistol-

elites- 3x San preists-110ea -mbomb, infernus pistol, jpack, pow wep

troops- 4x assault squads- 10man ea, 2meltas, sarge with pow wep and meltabomb
2x 5man scout squads (snipers), cloaks, missile-

fast- 2x typhoons
2x typhoons
1x mm speeder.


I'm perty sure that's what I came up with...

Not sure how good it is but I have everything so I guess that's a good thing? It has 44 jump packing fnp units, the librarian gives a 5+ cover save to the units around him so stuff should get there???

It has 10x missiles, 1x mm, 8x meltas, 4x melta pistols



Oh and new codex=new rules so dco are more special now which is why u can do a apoc game of all death co (7000points in 62guys)

[Ironhide]

So what is their strength? And what is their weakness? Good assault troops? Expensive point costs?

[EZ mac]

So what is their strength? And what is their weakness? Good assault troops? Expensive point costs?

Almost all of the uber units run for well over 220 points at 5guy level...so yes expensive.

The biggest problem with the list will be holding objectives if u want to do an assault army.

Having gun dreds as heavy also will limit the amount of anti tank a bit over reg marines but then the Baal is fast attack and is scount and a fast tank.

The book itself will be a strong one but as u can run just about anything u can out of reg space marines there really isn't that much different (besides the odd troop choices) and a lack of null zone.

Jump packing librarian dreds look fun tho.

[Brian Adair]

Okay so I need Astaroth- can he be in a rhino'? Also, do the Baals scout and thus outflank? If I am running a bunch of DC units, what size do you think I could run them to keep their points down.. 8? Again, remember I don't care if I am winning tournies with this list, just want something fun. Could I get away with walking the dreads?

[EZ mac]

Okay so I need Astaroth- can he be in a rhino'? Also, do the Baals scout and thus outflank? If I am running a bunch of DC units, what size do you think I could run them to keep their points down.. 8? Again, remember I don't care if I am winning tournies with this list, just want something fun. Could I get away with walking the dreads?

Astaroth has wings so no rhino.

Do at least units of 5(can take afusion pistol and allows to take dreds)

They are dreds why couldn't you walk them? They ignore shaken/stunned.

Take an army with 9dreds for fun games (3x librarian, 3x dco, 3x reg type) it should be funny to throw out that many.

[Ironhide]

So what is their strength? And what is their weakness? Good assault troops? Expensive point costs?

Almost all of the uber units run for well over 220 points at 5guy level...so yes expensive.

The biggest problem with the list will be holding objectives if u want to do an assault army.

Having gun dreds as heavy also will limit the amount of anti tank a bit over reg marines but then the Baal is fast attack and is scount and a fast tank.

The book itself will be a strong one but as u can run just about anything u can out of reg space marines there really isn't that much different (besides the odd troop choices) and a lack of null zone.

Jump packing librarian dreds look fun tho.

So for the army to be competitive you have to sacrifice capturing objectives and long range anti-tank?

[Brian Adair]

Astorath, Libby Dread, 3 DC Dreads, 3 DC units in rhinos, 3 Baal Preds- "price check on isle 3 please" Can I fit this into 1850?

[EZ mac]

@ironhide: u can still take tacticals in razorbacks or rhinos (rhino chasis are fat at +15-20pts each) just like vanilla sm, scouts are still troops (straight from SM codex)

u just have different stuff in different places. The codex feels like it wants to do jpack units to the max but u do not have to. Heck I think u can still do a decent shooty army which is quicker but slightly less shooty.

But for the most part yes it will be slightly harder to claim objectives as the codex uppoints tacticals in rhinos or rhazorbacks and assault squads (with or without rhinos) are 'better' for the points.

@Brian: a liby furioso starts at 125+ 50 for liby poweres (loses 1x dredccw in place of force wep) so 175
astorath is like 225 or 250(think that's metephisto tho..) so figure 225
a Baal ped is exactly like it is currently but can change the tl assault cannon for a flanestorm cannon (redemer wepon) so 140
a dc (at 10man?) is 200+ 50 (rhino) + 30(2pistol meltas) so min of 300ish???
A dcdred is like 125 so 3is 375

so
astorath-225
1x liby dreds- 175
3x Baal preds- 420
3x dcdreds- 375
2x dco -600

is about 1800 so yeah

Not a winning list IMHO ...but eh...

[Brian Adair]

What are the stormravens like pricewise, I would optimally love to do

2 DC units, 2 DC dreads 2 stormravens

[locust]

Also, do the Baals scout and thus outflank?

Yes, they can.

What are the stormravens like pricewise,

200pts. base then there are a bunch of upgrades.

[starslayer]

So whats the verdict? The BA codex is out- perhaps someone can fill us in.