Space Wolves- Whats the difference?

[starslayer]

Im deciding between starting a regular "Codex" Chapter of Space marines (Crimson Fists) or the Space Wolves.

Can someone knowledgeable give me the lowdown on whats different about the Space Wolves??

[reegsk]

Here's a list of major differences, as I see them. . .

Vanilla Marines
Combat Tactics -- Allows them to auto-fail a Morale check (great for falling back in the shooting phase to prevent an assault, or losing combat against a low initiative army to get out of there)
Vanguard Veterans
Sternguard Veterans
Scouts
Ironclad Dread (don't believe SW have these)
Land Speeder Storm

Space Wolves
Counter-attack and Acute Senses -- Basically replaces Combat Tactics and applies to the WHOLE army
Blood Claws -- Kind of like Scouts, but with +2A on the charge (also come as skyclaws [assault marines] and swiftclaws [bikers])
Fenrisian Wolves/Thunderwolf Cav -- Two cav choices that are actually pretty BA
Wolfguard -- SW don't get sarges like regular marines, but instead take Wolf Guard as an Elites choice. Then you can remove Wolf Guard from the unit and place them in other units like a sarge. It's a great way to add a guy in terminator armor into a regular tac squad.
Long Fangs -- Dev squad equivalent. More expensive, but if the sarge doesn't fire, they can split fire between two targets.
Lone Wolves -- Essentially Dwarf Slayers from fantasy. They run completely by themselves, and actually award a kill point if they DON'T die.

Obviously, the special characters between the two forces are completely different. The space wolves are supposed to be a much more specialized chapter, but they lost very, very little in exchange for a lot of very powerful options. They also have some great pieces of wargear that help protect against psychic powers, and the frost axe (a +1S power weapon) is pretty darn amazing. This isn't terribly in-depth, but I'm at work so I don't have the books right in front of me. I can go into more detail for you this afternoon. In essence, the Space Wolves are very much assault-specialized, while retaining the ability to bring plenty of firepower.

[starslayer]

So- there arent many "dedicated" Space wolf plastic sets then? Only the Space Wolf Pack & the Space Wolf Terminators. So you buy a few Space Wolf Packs, then a box of Devastators to make Long fangs and Assault Troops to make Blood Claws, etc- correct?

Thank you Reegsk! Your help is greatly appreciated!

[Dakkar98]

So- there arent many "dedicated" Space wolf plastic sets then? Only the Space Wolf Pack & the Space Wolf Terminators. So you buy a few Space Wolf Packs, then a box of Devastators to make Long fangs and Assault Troops to make Blood Claws, etc- correct?

Thank you Reegsk! Your help is greatly appreciated!

That's about right. the Wolf Pack is really all that you need.
I'm going to use the bodies from my first wolf pack with devastator weapons to make long fangs. Then use the CCW weapons with some other marine stuff to make blood claws, and the bolters to make Grey Hunters. I have a number of the old metal SW models that need newer arms so it works out for me.

[Dakkar98]

I couldn't decide between SM or SW, so I'm doing both.
SW also lost:
The ability to split into combat squads.
Camo cloaks for the scouts.
Thunderfire cannon.
Scout bikers.

But as far as force organization goes SW can field 2 HQs for every 1 they are allowed.

[reegsk]

No prob. As far as building, you are essentially correct. The space wolf box is 10 models with a TON of extra, wolf-themed stuff in it, for the same cost as a crappy ol' tac squad. It doesn't come with a rocket launcher, because Grey Hunters can't take heavy weapons, but it comes with lightning claws, thunder hammers, special weapons. . .craziness. It's an amazingly good deal for Wolves, or someone with a feral-themed marine army. You can easily buy a dev squad and have enough stuff from the space wolves box to create a Long Fangs squad.

[starslayer]

I now have both Codexes. Im really leaning towards space wolves.

thanks everyone.

[Ironhide]

Blood Claws have the same statline as Codex scouts, but SW have Wolf Scouts; which are an elite option and have some nice special rules. Long Fangs are not expensive. They have a max squad size of six, but you can get 5 heavy weapons, plus the "sarge" can take a special weapon. Add a WG Pack Leader to that with TDA and a Cyclone Missile Launcher, and you have a deadly firebase.

[starslayer]

Blood Claws have the same statline as Codex scouts, but SW have Wolf Scouts; which are an elite option and have some nice special rules. Long Fangs are not expensive. They have a max squad size of six, but you can get 5 heavy weapons, plus the "sarge" can take a special weapon. Add a WG Pack Leader to that with TDA and a Cyclone Missile Launcher, and you have a deadly firebase.

But Long fangs have no "ablative" Bolter marines.

[porkuslime]

Yes, no ablative wounds, but on the flip side, you can get 5 Missile Launchers which can split fire between 2 targets. Try to put em up high and in cover.. should be able to wreck a transport or 2 a turn at least!

[Ironhide]

The WGPL in TDA w/ CML and SS is not only a good ablative wound, but gives you another missile launcher (TL even); so that would be 6 MLs, a plasmagun or meltagun, and the ability to split fire. That's 233 points, but since you don't want the squad leader firing, drop 15 points off and make it 218 points. Your basic 10-man Dev squad is 170 pts before adding in the heavy weapons. Heck, a LF squad with 5 MLs will come out to 140 pts. That's pretty cheap in my book.

[reegsk]

I don't know how I got it into my head that LFs were more expensive than devs. Did they use to be?

[starslayer]

In the days of yore they were BS5.

[reegsk]

That could have been it.

Oh, the one downside of choosing wolves over fists -- no Pedro Kantor. He's not the greatest in combat himself (just a chapter master with a power fist. . .and a cracked-out storm bolter), but the +1 Attack to all friendly models within 12", replacing Combat Tactics with Stubborn, and turning Sternguard Vets into a scoring unit is pretty nice.

[porkuslime]

True.. they have no other vanilla characters.. but why would they want em? They got gobs of their own named special dudes.. Take Logan... he turns all Wolf Guard into scoring units (among other things)