USPS botched my trade... what do I do?

[Ironhide]

Totally agree with you MEDEVL. That is a poopy policy. Makes me think that the USPS ruining packages is a scam to get customers to buy insurance.

[mrrshann618]

Even if it is a scam it is generally cheaper to simply get the insurance than it is to ship with one of the alternatives.
They are offering different levels of service. Some of thier services come with insurance built right in. Basically when sending it the cheapest route possible, without any addons you are paying for them to simply get the package there.

Since someone used food think of it in these terms:
Your hungry so you go to a Fast food establishment.
You order a Burger, when you order a burger they typically ask you "you want fries with that?"
If you did not get the fries and were still hungry after the meal than you go what you purchased. You cannot go up to the counter and complain that thier Royal W/ Cheese did not completely fill you up.

On the other hand they tend to offer "Value meals" which contain a sandwich, side, and a drink. This would be the same as purchaseing a service that included tracking and shipping already in the cost.

[connivingsumo]

good dialogue here

[Ironhide]

The food analogies don't work in this situation. It's more like airport baggage handlers going through you bags and taking your camera, just because they can, then saying it was your fault because you didn't have luggage locks on it. It's thievery. No matter how much you try to spruce it up.

[MEDEVL]

If not thievery then certainly negligence. If the USPS feels the need to open parcels for inspection (as is apparently their right) then those parcels opened should immediately accrue insurance against any loss or damage. The USPS has taken it upon themselves to intercept and unpack/inspect said package, outside the knowledge of either the sender or recipient, therefore they should from that point on bear additional responsibility for safe delivery.
I realize this might not be a very common occurance but I can tell you that if I was in this situation I would be LIVID. I don't think I should have to buy insurance to make sure a package gets to it's destination safely. That is what the FEE is for. I'm already paying you to ship it from origin to destination. The suggestion that another fee should be paid to insure it gets there in one piece, if at all, is beyond ridiculous.
If nothing else consumers should have an option at the PO to have their boxes inspected on site by USPS representatives and then if they are opened at a later date by USPS inspectors they are automatically insured by the USPS.

[Ironhide]

Especially if the package is opened and nothing illegal is found.

[kturock]

DuDE, it's the same with all shippers: UPS , FED-EX, even bus companies. [if they still transport pacakges]
If the item isn't insured, and it gets lost or damaged, you're out. Who else could lose or damage it? No one else touches it, but their employees and equipment.

Electric companys are now selling insurance against damage, from power surges or drops. If a power surge or drop, from them, damages anything plugged into a wall outlet, and you have their monthly insurance, they'll pay for any damage to repair or replace the item. If you don't have the insurance, you have to prove it happened. {You must have a techinician inspect it and write a statement that that's what caused the problem. Then they must have on file that a proble occured that day. [which they usually don't have.]}

[kturock]

The food analogies don't work in this situation. It's more like airport baggage handlers going through you bags and taking your camera, just because they can, then saying it was your fault because you didn't have luggage locks on it. It's thievery. No matter how much you try to spruce it up.

No, it's more like you bag has an exotic spic ein it. One of the sniffer-dogs barks at it. You have it taped, locked and tied closed. They get in and search the bag and find nothing wrong. Then they reseal it, but it doesn't close as well as it was the 1st time. The suitcase, because it's over filled, bursts open along the baggage carousel and all your stuff spills out.

Or, it's like you take a suitcase, that's cheap, old and overstuff it. Then beacuse it has a weak zipper, and thin sides, it breaks open.

You must remember: Things aren't handled by off-season x-mas elves. Things are sorted on machines, and handled by machines. If it isn't packaged to handle it, IT'S YOUR FAULT.

[kturock]

If not thievery then certainly negligence. If the USPS feels the need to open parcels for inspection (as is apparently their right) then those parcels opened should immediately accrue insurance against any loss or damage. The USPS has taken it upon themselves to intercept and unpack/inspect said package, outside the knowledge of either the sender or recipient, therefore they should from that point on bear additional responsibility for safe delivery.
I realize this might not be a very common occurance but I can tell you that if I was in this situation I would be LIVID. I don't think I should have to buy insurance to make sure a package gets to it's destination safely. That is what the FEE is for. I'm already paying you to ship it from origin to destination. The suggestion that another fee should be paid to insure it gets there in one piece, if at all, is beyond ridiculous.
If nothing else consumers should have an option at the PO to have their boxes inspected on site by USPS representatives and then if they are opened at a later date by USPS inspectors they are automatically insured by the USPS.

Sorry, by governmemnt mandate; WHICH WAS ENFORCED BY COURT ORDER, BY UPS, USPS AND/OR IT'S EMPLOYEES, ARE NOT ALLOWED TO PACKAGE ITEMS FOR CUSTOMERS. [UPS SUED, YES SUED USPS, under the guise of mailboxes etc., to leave the packaging industry, when it/we had a program called "Pack-n-Send". You brought you items to USPS. We packaged them for you, for an added fee, and shipped them. Our prices were less than Mailboxes, etc/UPS so they sued. If you can't make money in business honestly, sue your competition. It's the American Way. USPS was then told, by the court, they aren't not allowed, under any circumstances, to pack items for customers, for a fee or free.]

Any insurance is a gamble; you're betting something will happen, the seller is betting it won't. You die, you die in a car accident, you get hurt in a car accident, you car gets damaged, your house gets damaged in a fire, flood, hurricane, tornado, your house gets robbed. It's all the same. You're betting that someting will occur, and the insurance comapany is betting it won't. You're betting USPS, UPS, FEDEX, will damage an item when they transport it for you. They're betting they won't.

I really can't believe I'm explaining how insurance works to people over the age of 12.

[kturock]

I'm sure you're right and as always I really appreciate your input and knowledge but I have to say that is a big bag a crap policy. Obviously I'm not blaming the messenger but if the USPS can't be held responible for flaws in their service what good are they?? This would be like a restaraunt charging you one price on the menu but extra if you want it to taste decent and not make you sick. If you don't pay the extra you're just SoL.
I understand that they can't complete every singe delivery with no accidents or loss but that's not what happened here. They opened it and then half of it got lost somehow. They should be help resonsible.

Do you have road hazard insurance on you car tires? The tire sellelr is betting you won't run over something and puncture the tire. You're betting that you will.

It got opened and resealed. If it reopened because the resealing wasn't adaquate enough has to be proven.
It still hasn't been proven that the items were lost, in shipping.
Sorry, but we have before seen people claim, the item arrived empty, then see them post the items for trade or sale later. [here on b-town.]

Why was it opened? That still hasn't been answered.

[Ironhide]

You are not getting it. A USPS employee (not a machine) opened the package for inspection. Nothing illegal was found. USPS employee repackages it and sends it on to the recipient. Recipient receives it with missing items. The person who shipped it says everything was in there when he shipped it. Either A) The person who shipped is lying, or B) the USPS employee did not put everything back in the package. Explanation "A" doesn't matter, because once it was opened by USPS, the blame falls wholly on them, because there were the last ones to screw with it. Whether it is insured doesn't matter, USPS should have the good courtesy to fix the problem caused by one of their human employees. Or are you going to tell me that machines open up and inspect the mail, and determine if anything bad is in it?

It equates to me going into a store and an employee accidentally spilling soda on my shirt, the management is going to have the good sense to fix the problem by paying for my cleaning, or replacing the shirt. It's not like I have insurance for walking into a store.

[kturock]

You are not getting it. A USPS employee (not a machine) opened the package for inspection. Nothing illegal was found. USPS employee repackages it and sends it on to the recipient. Recipient receives it with missing items. The person who shipped it says everything was in there when he shipped it. Either A) The person who shipped is lying, or B) the USPS employee did not put everything back in the package. Explanation "A" doesn't matter, because once it was opened by USPS, the blame falls wholly on them, because there were the last ones to screw with it. Whether it is insured doesn't matter, USPS should have the good courtesy to fix the problem caused by one of their human employees. Or are you going to tell me that machines open up and inspect the mail, and determine if anything bad is in it?

It equates to me going into a store and an employee accidentally spilling soda on my shirt, the management is going to have the good sense to fix the problem by paying for my cleaning, or replacing the shirt. It's not like I have insurance for walking into a store.

No, you're not getting it.
WHY was it opened?

IF items are removed, then law enforcment, like the inspectors are called. [also sometimes other agencies, like customs, local law enforcement or dept. of interior {for illegal;y hunted animals}. ] The items are then turned over to law enforcement. NO ONE REOMVES THINGS FROM BOXES UNLESS THEY ARE LAW ENFORCEMENT. And then it's usually after someone is arrested or questioned.

If media rate was the claimed, the items still would be replaced into the box. They don't get held, or confiscated, because they 'don't belong'.
IF, you're tyring to clam theft by a postal emplolyee, then file with the inspectors. They are twice as hard on us as you.
Every postal facility; inside and out; customer and employee only areas; are under 24 hour survalince. [sp?] If someone wasn't recorded; video or audio, they can be.

If you're claiming negligence, you're still SoL. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm saying you won't get paid for it. There are no provisions, rules or regulations forcing/allowing/mandating anyway to get reimbursed; unless it's insured. Only 1 service has insurance included; Express Mail. Only the premium services of UPS and FEDEX have insurance included in their prices. Base rate, economy, ground and other non-premium services are 'no-frills'. You don't add the service, you don't get it.

It's 2 seperate incidents.
1- it was opened for inspection.
2- it reopened somehow during handling/processing and items came out. How and why did it reopen? Was it the tape used to reseal it? Was the box to thin for the items inside? Magazines/catalogs/books are heavy. Their weight can easily split open a non-reinforced box.

It equates to you buying a car, and not having insurance on it when you leave the lot. The car stalls, in traffic right in front of the car lot, and gets into an accident. Yes, it's the dealers fault the car broke down, but it's your fault you didn't have insurance. The dealer won't buy you another car, even though the fuel was bad, or whatever caused it to stall. You didn't have insurance.


If the box is opened, it's then resealed. If a box accidently breaks open; either due to a machine handling it, or improperly packaged; it's resealed.

[EZ mac]

Offtopic: Why are you 3 even ranting about this? It is a convienience to us anyone to send stuff for you, if you want to 100% guarentee that it gets there in one peice then drive there/fly there yourself. I know it sounds over the top but if you can't trust the usps and don't want to pay for the extra comfort of insurance then don't use the mailing companies at all, IT IS YOUR CHOICE TO SEND WITH or WITHOUT INSURANCE not the post office.

Pluss as a company based mostly around HUMAN actions (you right the adress, they check the box, do whatever they feel like to the box, deliver the box and then the person u sent to opens the box) how can you not expect some things to get broken/resealed incorectly/theft to occur?


What is the percentage of lost boxes anyway? Like 1:100 in the US? And how many boxes get senT daily/weekly/monthly/yearly?

ON topic:
working out either a new trade for the already traded items would be a very nice thing to do or even sending partial cash for those items would be extremly nice.

[kturock]

Well, EZ mac, you pretty much summed it up.

But the title of the post is....usps botched my trade.

when in truth it might not be so.
He might have botched it by the postage rate used, thus causing it to be opened. He might have botched it, by using a too light or thin-walled box to package. Or by using a box that listed it held prohibited materials. [like paint, gas, ligheters, fireworks, bullets, bugs. et c.]
Without looking at pics of the box; describing why it got opened, and how it was resealed; we're all just monday morning quarterbacks. Some of us are more experienced with the problem, but, not seeing it, we're all just guessing.

If someone from canada posted, "Losey customs office smegged my trade"...by charging a customs fee higher than the 'worth' of the items, there'd be as much fevor as this post. [i only chose that topic since it's been mentioned before.]

The OP wanted to rant and has. He asked questions on why and what to do. Subjects were brougth up that people don't want to think about, much less admit too. [who wants to admit they used a too light or thin box, scrimped on tape or padding, or fudged a bit on the weight?]

I do like your sig though.

[reegsk]

First off, insurance, to me at least, protects against accidental damage, like the package gets dropped, twists poorly in a machine, gets crushed under other boxes, etc. If it was intentionally opened by USPS employees for inspection, that's an intentional act. If an intentional act leads to damage, you should be able to get some form of reparations, insurance or no. In the car analogy, if you wreck your car because of an accident, you have insurance to protect you against that. If the mechanic forgot to reconnect the steering column, and you crash into a wall, you don't need insurance to seek damages, the mechanic or garage can be held responsible. If it's proven, of course.

And I think that's what it comes down to in this situation. We haven't heard back from the OP on whether or not he's received pictures from the other trader of the "Opened for Inspection" marks. If it can be proven that it was opened, then we can start considering whether it was negligence on the part of a USPS employee that may have lead to the loss. Kturock, if it was opened and inspected, is there any way to see where it may have been inspected, so they could contact the inspectors you mentioned to look into possible negligence during/after the inspection?

Lastly, to EZ, this isn't a convenience, it's a paid service. If the USPS were doing this for free, as a favor, then yes, go with the "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. . ." argument. But they're not doing this for free. The USPS is, to all intents and purposes, a business. A government-run business, sure, but a business nonetheless. Suggesting that "if you want to 100% guarantee that it gets there in one piece then drive there/fly there yourself," is utterly preposterous. Who has the time, money and inclination to drive across the country to complete a single trade? I live in Massachusetts, and have completed 50+ successful trades, some to Canada, California and England. Now, if this package, or any package, had been sent without insurance, a heavy box fell on top of it and crushed everything inside, well, get insurance next time, lesson learned. That's something you can knowingly take into account and accept as a risk when you ship anything. However, having a package opened by the mailing service for inspection, and then being improperly resealed which leads to loss, that's something that you don't really take into account, because it's an intentional, not accidental, intervention, and you would assume that the mailing service, whom you paid, would have the courtesy to properly reseal the item in question. Not saying that's what happened here, but if it is, then I could understand someone being upset. I certainly would be.

As far as a 1:100 ratio of problematic transactions to successful ones, that's a completely unacceptable ratio. You're talking about 10,000 bad transactions out of a million. Sure, not a huge number, but still unacceptable. And I would imagine the USPS ships well more than a million packages in a single year. Think about McDonald's, if they had a 1:100 ratio of burgers that make people ill to burgers that don't, that would mean that almost one-hundred billion people would get sick every year. Still think a 99% success rate is a good thing?