E-Bay question

[bhouze]

I've seen in the past that sellers get to comment on the feedback that is left for them if it is neutral or negative. The seller gets all the perks it seems. Holding feedback for ransom just doesn't seem right.

[JohnHwangBT]

Commenting on Feedback doesn't change the fact that wrong feedback was left, or that somebody got screwed.

[Adunaphel]

Sure. Commenting on the negative feedback you have received is way more of a perk than skipping on the whole thing entirely.

I agree that withholding feedback is a bit of a downer, but hardly the end of the world. If you come across a seller that states it in his auction, skip it. If it is something that he brings up after the auction, then as a buyer you have two outcomes:

A) You were otherwise happy with your goods and you can decide to leave him a positive (in which case he will then leave you one).

OR: You were happy with your goods but decided that the seller withholding his feedback was worthy of a neutral/negative feedback or no feedback at all. In which case he can't do anything back at you anyway other than not leave you a feedback.

OR:

B) You were unhappy with the results of the auction (which you certainly have a right to in this case) and you leave him a neutral/negative feedback. In which case he can't do anything back at you other than not leave you a feedback.

I could go on about a seller who sends EVERYTHING in the box and the buyer CLAIMS that he did not get his item. Would you like to know what kind of recourse the seller has? Nothing. Nada. The buyer makes a claim. Paypal finds in his favor. The buyer walks with the seller's item, money, and maybe a positive feedback (if the seller gives it to the buyer when the buyer pays). The seller does get to go on selling stuff on eBay. Although the claim does go against him...

Karl

[Elayne]

I could go on about a seller who sends EVERYTHING in the box and the buyer CLAIMS that he did not get his item. Would you like to know what kind of recourse the seller has? Nothing. Nada. The buyer makes a claim. Paypal finds in his favor. The buyer walks with the seller's item, money, and maybe a positive feedback (if the seller gives it to the buyer when the buyer pays). The seller does get to go on selling stuff on eBay. Although the claim does go against him...

Karl

True.
However, I guess it goes even further.
Even if the delivery was tracked, the buyer could state the box was empty / full of stones, also. Right ?
Or is it then the buyer's obbligation to prove the goods weren't as stated ?
(but then, unless you use DHL, FeDex, or similar and STOP the delivering guy to control the goods before letting go away, how can you prove that any pictures taken weren't done after you taking away the real goods ?)

[kturock]

I just went through this on Ebay.

I bought a CSM army. Lots of models and 3 rhinos; 1 custom, 1 partially built, 1 unbuilt.

The box arrived with bits falling out. The box wasn't full, 1/3rd of it had no padding at all. The few styrofoam peanuts in it shredded inside.

Almost every mini was broekn of became unglued. All were painted poorly. The pics didn't show it since they were out of focus, or hidden behind others painted TT.
8 models wer e missing. Several were missing parts. The 1 custom rhino has 4+ layers of paint. There wasn't enough parts to build the 2 others.
It took 2 weeks for ebay to make a desision, in the sellers favor. Reason?

Here's the exact quote:
"If you have mdofied the items in anyway from how they arrived to you
then we can't issue you a refund if you would have returned them the way
you received them we would have refunded you the purchase price plus the
shipping it cost you to receive them, however since you have messed with
them and attempted to repair them we will have to close this case and
not allow you to return them."


That's ebay's csr. He can't type and uses poor grammar.

Ebay, yeah, they got your back. [in your back.]

I'll post the entire thread if anyone wants it.

[richie72]

HI all,
I am the seller concerned and I must say that from reading this forum I am absolutely horrified to read the comments left here by some.
NOT all sellers are bad on ebay. I work damn hard to ensure all my buyers get what they buy BUT accidents happen, simple as that, accidents happen.

So let me get to the issue at hand.
I sold a figure to Brad (the chap who started this thread) in Canada, I forgot to put the backpack in the parcel. He contacts me upon receipt to tell me that the backpack is not included and I was horrified as I knew he had a painter waiting. So I contacted him and explained that it was an error and I would send off the backpack PLUS extra backpacks etc as extras as a gesture of goodwill on my part.
I then posted the backpack with 20 extra new backpacks (as he had requested new backpacks as his extras).

I hear nothing else from Brad so I think he has received his backpacks and all is well. I thought if there was a problem he would email me, in hindsight I should have followed up and I usually would so I will accept any criticism on that but I really thought he would email me again if he had any problem.

Then this morning I get up and I have a negative - one of only three negatives I have ever received in 5 years of trading, three stores, and over 100,000 sales, and if any ebay sellers are reading this then they will understand how hard it is to have such a low negative rating! I have bent over backwards to ensure customer satisfaction as I want all my customers to feel happy with the transaction.
At no point did me and brad cross swords, everything was friendly and polite and maybe that led me into the false sense of security that the guy would email me if there was any more problems!

Okay then now I wke up this morning and go to the mac and low and behold I have a negative, and I feel it is totally uncalled for - I ring Brad - yep from Manchester UK to Canada to ask what the problem was as he had left a very disjointed neg:-

Incomplete, Given 2 ship dates for rest over 30 days ago, Reactionary feedbacker

I just did not understand why he had left this had not contacted me? And as for the "reactionary feedbacker" tag???? What he meant by that. I read it as a way of slyly stopping me from replying to his comment!

I Anyway I rang Brad and it turns out that he never received the backpacks! No email to tell me nothing whatsoever! Now I don't know about you but if I had talked to a seller who was very reasonable and not being snotty in anyway and we have conversed like human beings then when the parcel had not turned up I would have emailed him again and asked what was going on? I would NOT have left him a negative until I know he is "ripping me off" . A neg should be the very last thing and only used when you have no other avenue open or your seller is ignoring you etc. A simple email to me to say he had not got them and I would've refunded his money!
My mistake with the backpacks was not sending them recorded delivery but it was just 20 plastic backpacks and a metal one with a value of nil so I did not see the point of spending an extra £5 to send them recorded international delivery. Incidentally I have put a link in below to show what we sellers AND buyers have to put up with in the UK - for any of you who have "lost" stuff in the post then look at the link below before you start exploding on your seller or buyer for that matter! We have just watched an expose on our mail system and we were horrified - so please take time to look into it in the link and this may explain some things

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1460691 ... theft.html

Okay so the parcel has gone missing, email and tell me, I will do something! I cannot do anything if I don't know there is a problem. I cannot reiterate this enough, most sellers are genuine and yes some are scum and have no place on ebay or any other auction site but my point is not all sellers are bad, given the chance you will get the result you require but please do not just neg in the sake of "well that has showed him!" mentality. Anyway I am off track.

In the conversation with brad I ascertain that the backpacks have not shown up, now he states that the feedback is NOT the problem, well from what I have read here YES it is! I have copied in a few choice quotes from brad's own words in this thread:

These guys have offered me a little bonus so I may just wait it out and be nice and not bother leaving any feedback.

Now if I can just get the deadbeat to actually ship the whole item to me...

I don't know about you but to me that reads unfairly. I am no "deadbeat" and your "bonus" !!!!!

I then ask him what I can do to fix this problem and he asks four times for the tracking number to the backpacks whist I have explained three times that I only sent them airmail! I even said, "okay, they have gone missing presumed lost, what can I do now?, can I send you more stuff"? Even that I took the time to call him long distance held no sway. I was about to say that I would give him his money back or something and the line went dead? I couldn't believe he had hung up on me!!! I was not angry or being obtuse, I was calm and rational and he seemed the same so when the line went dead I was totally taken aback. I did not attempt to ring back as it seems I have done all I can for this guy.
So now I am thinking of closing up everything, have been thinking of it for a while now as buyers have too much power over sellers and we get the blame for everything, we have no way to refute claims, we have no re-course to bad feedback, I am now starting to lose money with a recession still in full swing and even when I try to to the right thing I still get shafted.

On the feedback issue - I am a powerseller and I simply do not have the time to leave feedback individually so I have mine set to automatic as ebay gives powersellers this advantage. With the automatic feedback you the buyer leave feedback and then it is reciprocated. This was also explained to brad when he asked why I hadn't left him feedback (so please remember this for future use as some people seem to think it is there right to feedback and take offense when it is not left, well us sellers cannot leave any negative or neutral feedback so YOU the buyer hold all the cards here! I have read some of the comments saying "neg" him, that is so easy to do for the buyer and you simply do not understand the damage it does to the seller - it is not simply a case of leaving a bad comment, oh no, nowadays we are judged on how "bad" we are not how "good" we are, so that one negative will cost me all my powerseller rebates this month on that account - at least £100, now if I was a bad seller with previous for doing bad things to customers then fair enough but I am a good seller, I pride myself on my 100% feedback and I have helped 1000's of warhammer fans over a number of years (yes I make money, it's my business but I also like to help people and I can bring in hundreds of buyers who I have helped to this thread to vouch for that! If anyone cares to question how I have helped people) as I run three ebay warhammer shops not just this one where I have received this negative - and in over 100,000 sales in over 5 years I have only ever received two other negatives and believe me I have worked so damn hard for that, I have refunded so much money, sent out so much free stuff just to ensure that everyone is happy with their purchases.

What more can I do here? Well we will see as I will now email "brad" and he can have his say.

[richie72]

Another error here I need to point out

I've seen in the past that sellers get to comment on the feedback that is left for them if it is neutral or negative. The seller gets all the perks it seems. Holding feedback for ransom just doesn't seem right.

This is totally untrue EVERYONE has the right to reply to feedback received - buyers AND sellers - you go to the bottom of your feedback page and there in big blue letters is a link saying
"Reply to feedback received"
Please get try to ensure you know what you are complaining about!

[bhouze]

And now you'll have the opportunity to list that the mail lost your packet. I was pretty sure that paypal would have dropped you a line when I lodged my complaint with them. It's unfortunate that There's only a 45 day window to request a refund.
It's also unfortunate that my won items only are shown for 60 days. That period ends before the mail arrives monday. I simply had to leave feedback before my time limit ran out.
I offered to mail you back the mini and eat the registered shipping for a refund.
I've NEVER had an incomplete item arrive. I've had items I've shipped get lost before and now I ONLY ship trackable traceable. You made the mistake of missing the bit and should have just ate the extra trackable shipping and chocked it up to a lesson learned. Now you've lost the only LOD backpack you had and literally can't complete the transaction.
I'm as miffed as you are. Now I have to watch for another Sgt. Centrius with the non-original backpack.
I can always hold out hope that it may arrive yet, but seriously doubt it after this long.
I am as much as a victim as you in this affair.

Brad

[richie72]

I completely agree with you so what is the problem???? Stuff paypal time limits I told you I would refund your money no problems at all?? I am an honest man - you are unhappy with the transction - I WILL STILL REFUND YOUR MONEY! Why didn't you email me to tell me that they had never arrived? Why all this "deadbeat" and "feedback" stuff? Why did you hang up on me today? I was not angry or confrontational? Far from it, that call cost me £18.52 to make to you. I was not aware that the second parcel had not turned up - not once did you email me top say it hadn't. I am a powerseller who runs three ebay shops, I have a young family and I go out of my way to answer all mail etc as you know.
We could've sorted this without you leaving such damaging feedback? Have I ever told you that I would do nothing? Have I ever given you reason to suspect I was being false? I could give you my other shop manes and you could check the feedback on them too and you will see how much of a good trader I am.

I am not saying I am whiter than white but by god my reputation means a hell of a lot more to me the £40, I have tried to tell you this all along.

You are now out of pocket and I never want that with anyone! If you had mailed to to say they hadn't turned up I would've have told you to keep the mini and I would've refunded your money irrespective of whatever time limit paypal have on purchases. I have none. I can bring into this conversation hundreds of my buyers who I have helped and gone above and beyond to help but you call me a "deadbeat" so flippantly?

So now we are stuck at an impasse, you have done your damage to my reputation.

[Ironhide]

@bhouze and richie72: I suggest you take this to PMs.

[richie72]

Problem solved and we are both happy with the outcome. I ask anyone else reading this that may be thinking of leaving bad feedback for a seller to ensure they have tried absolutely every avenue before doing it. Please communicate with your seller and you will nine times out of ten get the desired outcome. A neg nowadays to a seller is not just bad feedback, Ebay now judge all sellers on how bad the seller is, not how good he/she is!!! Meaning that one negative could take away that months rebate!
Most sellers on Ebay are honest believe it or not - well sellers in the Warhammer world anyway, we too are fans and not just cold hearted sellers who just want cash. Please keep that in mind, we are having a hard enough time as it is with ebay fees etc, sure we are trying to make a living but I sell my stuff cheaper than anyone else on ebay. I spend time every time I am listing to ensure that the item I am about to list is cheaper in my shop than in any other shop. I try hard to be fair and so do other sellers. We are not here to rob you of your hard earned cash.
Sure you will come across the odd seller who wants to do nothing but take your cash - that happens in all walks - and you have the tools now to hurt that seller and deservedly so. BUT there is a very famous saying - "with great power comes great responsibility" Use it wisely.
Cheers