space wolf rule question

[EZ mac]

Ok so here at my store we have several players doing space puppy's (or wolves) and because GW in their infinite wisdom release rules for models that do not exist we have players who say that a thunder wolf Calvary model may be based on a regular rectangle base reserved for bikes and Calvary, these people are converting them to be on motorcycles as well as on other GW sized hounds. these people say that because the model (which there is none) do not come with a base size and because they are declared as being cav in their description then they can be based on either size (large round or cav rectangle).

I say that because the special character is on a thunder wolf that that is the base size which they must be based on. the reason for this is that i believe that by having a smaller base size players can hide models behind terrain much easier as well as get more into combat than what would normally be allowed to (smaller base size= more being able to get base to base as well as fit into a gap between models).



So what do other people think about this? Does anyone have links to actual rule answers for this issue?

[LadyAnara]

the local redshirts at my GW have stated all the wolf cav has to match the base to the 1 model (the tunder wolf) that exists allready.

isn't the statline for the wolf cav the same as the thunderwolf or close to it?

[EZ mac]

Canis is 52553558 3+sv
twolves are 44552448 3+sv

so besides the up for being a character yes they are.

Pluss the ruling in the FAQ for loards on twolves make them unmodified toughness and streingth 5 so also the same.

[LadyAnara]

so big bases.

i know the store manager here has modeled up all his wolf cav on the big ones.

[EZ mac]

so big bases.

i know the store manager here has modeled up all his wolf cav on the big ones.

I have shown both the same stats as well as explaining how because there is a model called a thunder wolf but they will still say that because the model does not exist that they will only change if a official gw person says otherwise.

im kinda hoping that there was a ruling somewere that i can show them that i didnt find but i really doubt that there was.

[Ironhide]

GW has not released anything official on the base size for TWC. There are two schools of thought on the matter. One, is what your friends are saying. The other, is what Lady Anara said. I'm in the first category. No official model, no official base size. Unit type says cavalry, and the rectangular base is a cavalry base. I think this because Canis Wolfborn's mount is larger than a normal thunderwolf.

[EZ mac]

it also doesnt help that there are other cav/ beast models that do not use the rectangle bases like blood crushers and ravenors which both use other bases.

[MagickalMemories]

I agree with the GW managers who say "large base."

To be honest, does it really matter, though? In the end, you're just out to have some fun. A win or loss in a game of mandollies on your typical "gaming night" at the local hobby shop isn't going to make or break your life. Is it?

Now, if you're playing in a tourney with prize support, especially if you had to pay an entrance fee, then you should probably be certain that the TO addresses is in advance. That way, it's fairest for all.


Eric

[EZ mac]

I run the events here at the store so I am trying to keep it fair for all. We do a turny (maybe 2) for 40k a month as well as 3 "leagues" in which u pay to enter($10), pay($1) to play and get points on if u win/lose/ tie and at the end of the 3months all the money gets put into a pool and u bid on GW stuff (which we pull off the shelf our cost) with ur points.

Has anyone ever had a squad of dudes in a no win assault with a dred (with all gaps full because of consolidation moves except for one small base gap) and have a term squad sit outside the assault because of med bases? That is one of the reasons for having med or large bases on certain units in the game so that they get it the way or can't move somewere.

Having models on too small of bases makes more fit into the same space. The game his a rule thar says u can not be within 1in of an enemy, but say there is a gap between 2rhinios of 3in...a dred large base cannot fit between it but a cav base can (1in diam). How can that be a fair thing if the exact same model, which should be on the larger base, can not but because his are on smaller bases they can?

The person I refer to had had them on largebases last week (1/1/10) but then had changed his entire 9 twolfs so they were little.


I really want to have a game in which we actually use the book for rules, we will not be playing the game if we decide to play with rules that arnt in the book.

[MagickalMemories]

Well, if you're the TO, then you get the final say in tourneys. Stay strong and consistent, and your judgement will, likely, be accepted as standard in your are.
What you describe from the guy makes it sound like he knew darn well what he was doing in switching the bases.

Eric

[EZ mac]

Well, if you're the TO, then you get the final say in tourneys. Stay strong and consistent, and your judgement will, likely, be accepted as standard in your are.
What you describe from the guy makes it sound like he knew darn well what he was doing in switching the bases.

Eric

i think it was a combination of someone else doing a conversion of them made with bikes being made into Harley (Thunder wolves? that sounds like a bike brand ) on a long 25 mm fantasy rank base (the ones that are effectively 4 25mm sq bases glued together) which are slightly smaller than a round dred base {which I do not believe is that much of a problem as its like 4mm too short from having the same area) and this guys freind that said "hey you know that because the model doesnt exist and because their is a picture of a cav base on page 4 that shows a beast model then that is a legal base for them".

I honestly would not have a problem with it as long as the models base takes up the same area on the board or more.

for instance i use a greater daemon of nurgle from Forge World and have it based on a CD (5in base) because it is just that big and i love how mr. fatty looks so i use him. I really do not think its an advantage as everyone and their mother can (and does) shoot him but even if someone does ill just swap him out for a dred. But now that the trygun is coming out GW has a 5in base so i guess my base size is legal????


also I LOVE how GW says on pg 3 under bases " some players like to mount their models on impressive scenic bases. As mounting your models on different sized bases might affect the way they interact with the rules, make sure before the game that your opponent does not mind this". What kind of rule is that? it is after the big page that says 'the RULES' but its a sometimes rule that may or may not come up?

I think ill just say that all models must take up the right amount of area or more or they cannot be used in a turny. as much of a jerk as ill sound like this is really going to end up messing someones day up because he wants to abuse it.

[HarlequinZero]

You might want to try seeing if the AdeptiCon folks have put out rules on it. Their 40K FAQ is far more impressive than GW's and I know a lot of people who use it for their own tourneys.

[Dakkar98]

GW 40K rulebook page 3
"BASES
Citadel miniatures are normally supplied with a plastic base. If so, they must be glued onto their bases before they can be used in the game.

Some Players like to mount their models on impressive scenic bases. As mounting your models on different sized bases might affect the way they interact with the rules, make sure before the game that your opponent does not mind this."

Since the only current example of a Thunderwolf Cavalry model is Canis Wolfborn, His base size indicates the proper size base.
If it is mounted on a different size base the owning player must have the agreement of his opponent or he cannot use the unit(s) in question against that opponent.

[Ironhide]

Canis Wolfborn is a special character that rides a Thunderwolf. Not a Thunderwolf Cavalry model. There is no Thunderwolf Cavalry model, so there is no base size for it. After reading several threads on this (from different sites), I say base size is dependent on your gaming group or tournament organizer.

[Dakkar98]

Thuderwolf cavalry are : Cavalry that are mounted on Thunderwolves
Canis Wolborn's Unit type is listed as: Cavalry.
He is riding a Thunder Wolf.
He is the only example thusfar of cavalry monted on a thunderwolf, therefore his base size should be used as the basis for any Thunderwolf Cavalry models that someone converts for the game.
Technically, until an actual model is released an opponet could say that unless the entire Unit is converted from multiple Canis Wolfborn models that is does not count. Most opponents would allow them to convert from plastics wolves or what have you, as long as the base size is consistent with current example models.

According the the GW rulebook if you put a model on a different base size than what it is supposed to be on you have to have your opponent's approval if your opponent doesn't approve it you can us it on that size base.