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[MagickalMemories]

eric, im gonna bring this up over on DD YMDC if youre interested.
at this point i actually agree with norse for the reasons i mentioned.

I am.
Please, post a link?

Also:

For any reason if models leave their transport after going more than 12", they are considered destroyed.

This does not agree with your previous statement of:

I think there it says somewhere that if a tank explodes they disembark as well, so they are destroyed as well.

nope, just take x amount of hits and are placed where the vehicle was.

What changed your mind?

Eric

[Ironhide]

As already stated Flat out states they cannot disembark that turn. However no mantion is made of when they can disembark and the rules are left hanging as is the ability to disembark/embark is decided for that turn alone based upon potential movement.

No, it says THAT MOVEMENT PHASE.

[don_mondo]

so the trukk can move a full 24" dismark and still charge all in the same turn??

Just thought I'd point out that a standard Fast Vehicle can only move 18" maximum, barring other special rules being involved (red paint, roads, etc). Only Fast Skimmers now have a 24" standard 'Flat Out' movement rate.

As for the disembarking/destroyed bit, if you somehow manage to destroy your vehicle while moving flat out (ie during your movement phase), then yes, the cannot disembark/must disembark conflict comes into play. And most of us think that they are destroyed. BUT! it only affects the movement phase in which the vehicle moved Flat Out. At any other time, the cannot disembark clause is not in effect and the passengers can dismebark following whatever rules are appropriate for that disembarkation.

A thread on Dakka is at:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/po ... 70680.page

[Norseman]

No, it says THAT MOVEMENT PHASE.

I am pretty sure..."in that movement phase" IH is reading is in reference to, if the vehicle moved "in that movement phase" not they cant disembark "in that movement phase".

I think that the "In that movement phase" is just simply stating that if the vehicle moved flat out "in that movement phase", that no disembarkation is possible until it hits a movement phase it doesn't move flat out. Not as many interpret that the no disembarkation is only for that movement phase.

We have been playing it this way since launch and it does work quite well.

I believe it is even clarified as well in the Adepticon rules as well. (At work now so can't check.)

I know that calling on common sense in real world examples in kinda futile for a table top wargame, but it does make sense that if you are in a helicopter racing for the battle field at 250mph and someone shoots it down, You are proabably gunna die, or at least gunna be out of the battle.

[Ironhide]

BRB Pg. 70 says You can't disembark in that movement phase if the vehicle went flat out. Is your opponents turn "that movement phase"? Seems pretty simple to me. However, if your vehicle gets popped in "that movement phase", then everyone on board is destroyed. Might not like it, but it is "Rules As Written".

[Norseman]

What is the exact construction of the sentence that says that IH?

[usernamesareannoying]

@ironhide - i am not disagreeing with you but reread the rule, that is not what it says. it says you may not disembark if the vehicle moved flat out in that movement phase.

where is the pretense that says the restriction on disembarking ends at the end of THAT movement phase?

honestly i just think it is simply an unclear rule that can be bickered to death depending on how a person reads it.

[Norseman]

Can one of you guys copy the sentence out word for word? If it is the way UNAA says it reads it is almost for sure my understanding, with the vehicle being limited until its next turn by moving flat out.

[usernamesareannoying]

page 67 - Effects of Damage Results on Passengers

Weapon Destroyed & Immobilised - no effect
Destroyed - wrecked - Passengers must immediately disembark and then take a Pinning test. Any models that cannot disembark are destroyed. After this, the vehicle becomes a wreck.
Destroyed - explodes! - The unit suffers a number of Strength 4, AP- hits equal to the number of models embarked, treated just like hits from shooting. The surviving passengers are placed where the vehicle used to be and then take a Pinning test.

page 70 - Fast Transport Vehicles

Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in that Movement phase.

[Norseman]

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in that Movement phase.

When you move a SM with a heavy weapon his having moved negates his ability to shoot until his next movement phase. The same is true here. If you read it word for word it says nothing about the disembarkation being limited to the movement phase. It just says that you can't disembark if you move over 12". That would mean to me that you can not disembark until your next turns movement phase when everything resets to original status.

I don't see how anyone can think that they can work the English in anyway to limit the disembarkation restriction to the movement phase.

The Destroyed - Explodes result was clarified somewhere as a forced disembarkation. I believe in the GW FAQ .

[Ironhide]

You are assuming it carries over to the next movement phase; however, nowhere does it say that it does. It specifically addresses "that movement phase". If it was intended to carry over to your next movement phase it would say so, but instead it specifically states "that movement phase".

[Norseman]

Read the sentence again. Without the pause for the brackets.

Passengers may not embark onto, or disembark from, a fast vehicle if it has moved flat out, in that Movement phase.

A player only gets one movement phase per turn, so it is saying if you moved fast in THAT turn you cant disembark.

Look at the sentence structure...In no way is disembarkation and "that movement phase" linked in anyway in that sentence.

The link is ..."in that movement phase." is acting on "Fast vehicle moved flat out," not on the "Passengers may not embark onto, or disembark from," section of the sentence.

[Ironhide]

There is a difference between "turn" and "phase". Each player's turn consist of a movement phase, shooting phase, and an assault phase. The fact that the sentence says "phase", and not "turn", tells me that it only applies to that movement phase.

[Norseman]

Yes but all it is doing is describing when the vehicle moved.

When did the vehicle move?

In the movement phase.

[Ironhide]

No, the rule is saying that you may not disembark in THAT movement phase, if you move flat out.

The vehicle moved in THAT movement phase. Not your shooting phase, not your assault phase, not your opponent's movement phase, not in your opponent's shooting phase, and not in your opponent's assault phase. It specifically says, "Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in THAT MOVEMENT PHASE."