Okay, so what are reasons for not doing a guardian gun line? I'm thinking units of minimum size (maybe max them out), plus the weapons platforms - add a warlock for Conceal. Rely on some aspects (banshees or scorpions) for melee goodness, and maybe a unit of reapers or walkers for the heavy side.
What is wrong with this idea? I'm sure there is something I'm not thinking of.
Eldar Question - why not use a Guardian gun line?
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mrrshann618 ( 212 )
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Re: Eldar Question - why not use a Guardian gun line?
To be honest I have no idea whay it is a bad idea, except that for what you get it is expensive (compared t oother armies horde units)
During my short stint playing my Eldar I commonly used 2 large units of guardians. More than a few times that unit has been there with enough guns/bodies to turn the tide of agressive armies like the Tyranids.
I usually havea farseer near one of those units, after guiding a 20 man guardian squad most people do not go near them without softening them up first anymore (40 guided shots + charge the remainder of the squad) puts the hurt on any unit.
However with eldar you need to play thier strengths and not rely on "middleground" units to accomplish goals. With the ammount of cover on the board the Warlock conceal is a bit expensive. the other enhancements are not really a big deal unless you start to deal with storm guardians
During my short stint playing my Eldar I commonly used 2 large units of guardians. More than a few times that unit has been there with enough guns/bodies to turn the tide of agressive armies like the Tyranids.
I usually havea farseer near one of those units, after guiding a 20 man guardian squad most people do not go near them without softening them up first anymore (40 guided shots + charge the remainder of the squad) puts the hurt on any unit.
However with eldar you need to play thier strengths and not rely on "middleground" units to accomplish goals. With the ammount of cover on the board the Warlock conceal is a bit expensive. the other enhancements are not really a big deal unless you start to deal with storm guardians
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MagickalMemories ( 832 )
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Re: Eldar Question - why not use a Guardian gun line?
Because, even with that 5+ save, Guardians will die in droves to the shooting of most armies.
Guardians are an okay SUPPORT unit, but you do not want them as your core (IMO -- YMMV).
Eric
Guardians are an okay SUPPORT unit, but you do not want them as your core (IMO -- YMMV).
Eric
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porkuslime ( 3094 )
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Re: Eldar Question - why not use a Guardian gun line?
PLus.. Guardian Shuricats have only a 12 in range.. which doth blow.
2+2=5 for sufficiently large values of 2.
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MagickalMemories ( 832 )
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Re: Eldar Question - why not use a Guardian gun line?
...and they don't do a Hell of a lot more than that, either.
Eric
Eric
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Ironhide ( 92 )
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Re: Eldar Question - why not use a Guardian gun line?
Not to mention that you (the eldar player) would have to walk the board while most of your opponents could shoot you up from just out of range. Starting with your heavies and working their way down to your guardians. They'll have the time.
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Re: Eldar Question - why not use a Guardian gun line?
And these are the reasons I posted the thread in the first place. To help get my head on straight.
I've always liked the idea of the Biel-Tan Craftworld - using all those lovely little aspect warriors. So my thought on a gun line was pretty divergent from what I like about the Eldar. But it started off seeming like a good shooty army - so I knew something in my thinking was off.
*sigh* Aspect warriors.... *drool*
I've always liked the idea of the Biel-Tan Craftworld - using all those lovely little aspect warriors. So my thought on a gun line was pretty divergent from what I like about the Eldar. But it started off seeming like a good shooty army - so I knew something in my thinking was off.
*sigh* Aspect warriors.... *drool*
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porkuslime ( 3094 )
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Re: Eldar Question - why not use a Guardian gun line?
Now.. you CAN, (and what I did) use a Dire Avenger Gunline with Aspect CC squads in Wave Serpents. The DA have a slightly longer range, Exarchs that can double the shots/squad, or have a 5+ invuln save... so they are SLIGHTLY more thrilling than basic Guardians... but they book in at around 150 for a squad of 10.. give them a decent Wave Serpent and that close to doubles..
My All Aspect army.. (craftworld H'rshei... aka Skittle Eldar)... has 5 DA troop squads, and did alright. However, they are now retired until Wave Serpent and Aspect costs are more rational.
My All Aspect army.. (craftworld H'rshei... aka Skittle Eldar)... has 5 DA troop squads, and did alright. However, they are now retired until Wave Serpent and Aspect costs are more rational.
2+2=5 for sufficiently large values of 2.
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starslayer ( 560 )
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Re: Eldar Question - why not use a Guardian gun line?
Huge weakness in the game. HUGE!! And Eldar are suppose to be technologically advanced....bleh.porkuslime wrote:PLus.. Guardian Shuricats have only a 12 in range.. which doth blow.
I did try this with varying success, but not with the current rules.
Guardian squads w/support, jetbikes,war walkers,etc. Only Guardians and vehicles/weapons used by Guardians. Pluss Warlocks/Farseers of course.
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Norseman ( 374 )
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Re: Eldar Question - why not use a Guardian gun line?
They have to do something with the points cost or the abilities of the guardians.
If they go and do the fluffy thing it will probably be the abilities but I don't know what they could do other than give them a Inv Save or a better BS. Or maybe give them a pistol and HtH weapon and a S-Catapult base.
If they go and do the fluffy thing it will probably be the abilities but I don't know what they could do other than give them a Inv Save or a better BS. Or maybe give them a pistol and HtH weapon and a S-Catapult base.
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MagickalMemories ( 832 )
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Re: Eldar Question - why not use a Guardian gun line?
.... Ah, yes!Norseman wrote:Or maybe give them a pistol and HtH weapon and a S-Catapult base.
Marine Killers!
; )
IMO, the only thing you want Eldar Guardians going up against in HtH is Tau... and, even then, only when in greater numbers.
Eric
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Re: Eldar Question - why not use a Guardian gun line?
Oh wait i have it... S Catapults should be rending... That would do it...
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JohnHwangBT ( 180 )
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Re: Eldar Question - why not use a Guardian gun line?
R18" Rending Shuricats?Norseman wrote:Oh wait i have it... S Catapults should be rending... That would do it...
Only if you want Guardians not to suck and/or retain some semblance to their RT & 2E incarnations...
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mrrshann618 ( 212 )
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Re: Eldar Question - why not use a Guardian gun line?
I guess I just need to know why they create worse weapons for the guardians to use? I'd figure it would be like the imperium, They simply make Lasguns.
The difference between guardians (who if you read are often times EX-aspects as well as "non-combat" painters, lawyers and such) would be the actual skill and overal armor type. They wouldn't be carrying around old aspect armor.
Shuricats, should be shuricats.
DA's should jsut simply hit better with them, and have access to all those cool training techniques (bladestorm) While guardians shouls simply be guns. If those ranges were increased to 18" I'd field more of them, even with thier crappy skills.
The difference between guardians (who if you read are often times EX-aspects as well as "non-combat" painters, lawyers and such) would be the actual skill and overal armor type. They wouldn't be carrying around old aspect armor.
Shuricats, should be shuricats.
DA's should jsut simply hit better with them, and have access to all those cool training techniques (bladestorm) While guardians shouls simply be guns. If those ranges were increased to 18" I'd field more of them, even with thier crappy skills.
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Re: Eldar Question - why not use a Guardian gun line?
Yes I think all of these options would make the Guardians more point for point comparable unit.
18" Str4 AP5 Rending Ass 2 Sh Cat
HtH Weapon & Pistol Included
No Skills
DA would have Skill & Equip options with the plus 1 Init? What about another 6 inch range?
Would it be over powered I really do not think so. Not for 8 and 12 Point Respectively
18" Str4 AP5 Rending Ass 2 Sh Cat
HtH Weapon & Pistol Included
No Skills
DA would have Skill & Equip options with the plus 1 Init? What about another 6 inch range?
Would it be over powered I really do not think so. Not for 8 and 12 Point Respectively