NO dual lands or MTG here!... for 40k?

[connivingsumo]

Hi,

Just looking for some trade advice from those 40k folks that know the game & values better than I do - basically I know what 40k is and my knowledge ends there.

I have 7 Revised Dual Lands in pretty good shape, and 2 Unopened boosters of Antiquities. I know what they eBay for -roughly $20 per card & $30 per booster, for a rough total of $200.

Here's the list of 40k Orks that are being proposed for the 7 dual lands & 2 boosters.

1 Big Mek
1 Warboss (AoBR)
80 Ork Boyz (AoBR) but they don't have to be, i have lots of standard ork boys as well, its a good assortmant of both.
8 Big Shoota (these are standard ork boyz, with big shootas, some are Aobr, some are not)
4 Nobz (are from boy box sets)
15 Burnas
15 Deffkoptas (AoBR)
1 Battlewagon

Now I went on eBay and actually priced some of this stuff out, especially the AoBR (Assault on Black Reach) stuff, and I get an "eBay" cost of about $300.

What I want to know is, what would this army sell for on Bartertown? I know what sells for x$ on eBay, may trade for more, or less, here. I've moved away from eBay and have made Bartertown my home, so that's why I want to check w/the community 40k experts.

I don't play Magic anymore, so the cards have sat around since 1998/1999. On the other hand, I don't even know how to play 40k -don't have a rule book- but there's a decent sized local 40k community.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance

Best,
-CS

[Alkatchoff]

It's tough to say what the army would sell for here, because its value will vary from person to person. One might be really interested in that particular setup and offer a lot of money, while someone with a lot of the miniatures may not offer nearly as much for the same lot.

In regards to your proposed trade, take into consideration what you're letting go and what you're getting, and see how you feel. Imagine the completed trade. Do you like the situation? It's really more about being satisfied with the outcome more than any amount dealt with. I've often made $-uneven trades because I valued what the other party offered quite a bit.

When dealing for miniatures, one thing to take into consideration is their status. Are they painted? Assembled? As the condition will affect the lot's value, it's important to find out about it. Pictures are nice.

Hope this helps.

JF

[connivingsumo]

Oh, ya that's a good point and I meant to put the model's condition - just spaced it

Some are still on the sprue, some assembled, some primed, and I think he said the battlewagon was nib.

What I really DON'T want to do is make a huge mistake. If the trade is off a few bucks in my favor or his - not a big deal, I just don't want to get lamb-basted w/a very lopsided trade because I don't know what I'm getting. If he was offering a trade in Warmachines/Hordes - I wouldn't even post here because I know that game/value pretty well.

[gpfredette]

You state that you know warmachine/hordes real well, do you really want to start into 40K. It can be another high priced addiction.

I might suggest hitting up the 40k community and watch/play quite a few games to see if it will really be something that interests you.

With out any experience in the game Orks may be a bit much to take on.

If it was me this would be a no brainer as I just started to collect an Ork army...for you this may IMHO be a lot to take on.

Alkatchoff said:

In regards to your proposed trade, take into consideration what you're letting go and what you're getting, and see how you feel. Imagine the completed trade. Do you like the situation? It's really more about being satisfied with the outcome more than any amount dealt with.

This is really the best advice you will get. Trust your instincts and go from there.

Hope this helps some.

Thank you,

[connivingsumo]

I've been "exposed" to 40k since my fantasy days (10 years ago). The local "40k'ers" have taken over our Warmachine/Hordes night because, well, there's like 4 of us... MAYBE. There's a bazillion 40k folks, so I've kabitzed a few games, asked some questions, but -you're right- I don't know much about it. I wouldn't start out w/a 1500 point list. I'd start smaller to get to know the models a bit, then grow it from there.

I'm trying to grow the local WM/H crowd, but if it keeps dieing off I'm gonna have to switch to something and rather than choose some obscure game w/no crowd/players - figure 40k is a safe bet. I have no plans on playing it immediately as my first choice is a game system where the models never become outdated and "squatter" material.

I tried posting this question on the 40k forums at my LGS and the best response I got was, "well you're trading paper for plastic - sounds like a good idea to me, but -ya- that's a good chunk of an army" which didn't really help me determine if I was screwing myself or not.

[MagickalMemories]

Well, I suggest you do the math as I describe it. LOL
To be honest, I just don't feel like doing it. : )

Open an excel file or something and type/paste each unit into it. Look at Feebay COMPLETED items 9not active items... people can ask for $100 for a model all day... if it doesn't sell, it doesn't sell. using it as reference, though, will screw up your calculations. I doubt you're up to $200 value, as AOBR orks go pretty cheaply now. Especially on here (I recently saw 5 on sprue Nobs for $8).

(begin opinion)

So, once you've looked up your models, get an average of what they go for in NEW condition. Put that in the column next to the model.

Now, for each model/unit/group of models, assess its' condition.
For trade purposes, you should start at a base of 100%. That means anything that's NOS (or, maybe, off sprue but complete -with all bits- and otherwise untouched) gets full trade value.

----Keep in mind that, from here on out, we're talking about how *I* value things. Others may/will differ.----
For models that are assembled, they're worth 75% to 90% of their value. *Special* items might remain at 100%. The harder it will be to paint an assembled model, the lower % of its' initialvalue it's worth.
Models that are a b*tch to assemble might be worth 100% (or even more) to you. Personally, I don't see any models like that in his list, unless he's assembled and PINNED the Big Mek.

Now, we look at primed. What color is the primer? If it isn't black or brown (preferable black), you're going to have some annoyance during painting, as the colors will, likely, be too bright. Plus, shadows won't "fill" right. IMO, primed deducts 5% to 10% more from the value.
Also, ensure that you ask if they were ever painted before the most recent coat of primer. I've had experience where the models HAD BEEN painted, but the person primered over it. Now, without stripping the model, they called it "primered" instead of "painted" or "partially painted." B**tards. Obviously, these shenanigans should reduce the value of the model by another 10% or more.

Lastly, how is everything ARMED?
Your AoBR Warboss will have a Power Klaw. That's good. it's what you want. What about those Nobs? they should all have Power Klaws, too.


You don't need 15 Deff Koptas. Short of (possibly) Apocalypse, you'll never use 'em all. I wouldn't take more than 9. that will allow you to convert the hell outta them, and have them however you want.

Try to get 4 More nobs. That will give you up to 8 squads of 12 boys each. Don't be too picky on the 4 extra Nobs... though Power Klaws are still preferred.

Honestly, IMO, if your cards are worth $200, I think his side will probably end up being a little short.

(end opinion)

Eric

[connivingsumo]

Thank you

[JohnHwangBT]

I have 7 Revised Dual Lands in pretty good shape, and 2 Unopened boosters of Antiquities. I know what they eBay for -roughly $20 per card & $30 per booster, for a rough total of $200.

As an inactive MtG player, I wouldn't ever sell the Duals - they're just far too good, but the AQ boosters can go.

Frankly, I think the other guy is trying to screw you on the deal - easily tradeable Orks are not worth non-reprinting Dual Lands.

Anyhow, is that *exactly* the army that you want to play? Do you *really* want 15 Deffkoptas? Is only 1 Battlewagon enough? This looks like castoffs, and you can probably do better. If not, then it's not a good trade, even for cash. For a full army deal, stuff should be heavily discounted, at least 40% below retail, probably less.

I'd look to start Orks like this:
2x AoBR boxes (convert the Marines into MegaNob Termies and Dredd Dread) = $120 NEW, $95 via WarStore
1x Battleforce = $90 ($72)
1x Battlewagon = $50 ($40)
Total = $260 - $40 for the 2x SM Commanders & Tacticals

This gives:
2x Warboss

2x 5 MegaArmor Boyz
10 Nobz

2x 20 Boyz
1x 10 Boyz
1x 10 Boyz
1 Trukk

3 (Nob) Bikers
2x 3 Deffkoptas

2 Deffdreads
1 Battlewagon

I get an "eBay" cost of about $300.

Then it's worth, at most, $180. If you look at what what you want to play, it's probably less.

I'd start with an AoBR boxed set and find out what I wanted, before dropping $200 on somebody's failed Ork army.

[Adunaphel]

That's funny. I looked at the trade in almost the exact opposite way. What are the CARDS really worth?

Since we have disparaged the "value" of the Ork force, what about the "value" of the cards?

If you are going for exact value, sell them on eBay and buy yourself what you are looking for. If you don't play with the cards anymore, what are they really worth?

I have seen some INSANELY inflated prices on Magic cards on eBay. Some might sell, others don't.

So, you are going to get a large Ork force for "7 Revised Dual Lands in pretty good shape, and 2 Unopened boosters of Antiquities". Pretty good shape? That lowers their value, correct?

I agree that it is highly unlikely that you will need that many defkoptas, but at first look the trade looked pretty fair to me. Also, you could always come to a certain site to trade what you don't need for something you might want as far as Orks go.

It all depends on how YOU value what you have. Personally, I sold my Magic cards on the almighty eBay and was pretty unimpressed with what I got for them.

The folks who are in the know say that the Ork stuff is worth about $180. You stated that you thought your cards were worth about $200. Seems pretty close in value to me.

Just my .02.

[connivingsumo]

I truly appreciate your "devil's advocate" post & believe I took it in the spirit it was intended; additionally, I think I should clarify a few things.

Ya I said "pretty good shape" but that's a total undersell; I was in a hurry. Officially, I would rank them at VeryGood - Excellent, not mint or near mint only because they have been played, but they're not all worn, bent, torn, peeling, marks on front/back, etc. etc.

I agree w/the question-statement of "Well what are they worth to you?" Their "worth" to me is they sat around for 11 years and I haven't touched them, but I kept them because I "value" their value; therefore, I don't want to trade them for something that isn't as "valuable." Over the long term, the previous poster was correct - big picture = oop magic cards for plastic toys that they made a bazillion of - probably not a good trade. If I was getting a "sweet" deal on an army then I'd go for it - if I'm getting an average "meh" army, or "cast offs" as mentioned, then not really worth it. So I think I've made my decision (thank you MagickalMemories & JohnHwangBT).

I didn't just use eBay for the value of the dual lands - I used a combination of ENDED auctions that had actual bids on them (not buyouts or eBay Stores), over the course of a month, and used the "average" values found on magictraders.com. I am, without a doubt, confident that I could get what they're worth on eBay. You said, "Why not do that?" - and you're right - I should, but I'd rather trade here, Bartertown = FIRST CHOICE.
I'd rather drop their value a bit, trade something I'm not using for something someone else isn't using, and have a win-win trade as opposed to the -bid fest, people over pay (slightly or largely - whatever the case), eBay wins w/fees, paypal wins w/fees, and then they finally get the cards & I get the cash - just to buy something from someone else and *probably* pay paypal fees, possibly eBay fees, etc. etc. I'm really not intending to "bag" on eBay, and I really like PayPal, so I respect them for what they are and their purpose, but I have a better place to off-load my goods.

So, yes, I could go to eBay, but I choose Bartertown. (I wrote propaganda in a past life? )

I choose Bartertown because I've made awesome, AWESOME friends here (gubnutz, stanislav, ursidae, ironbrother, wyverneye, bitzjunkie and -dare I say- very friendly interactions with MagickalMemories & Porkuslime); I've been a member at eBay since May 10, 1998 ---> friends = ZERO, fees paid = hundreds.

Thank you -to EVERYONE- for your contributions to my question(s); I found them all very helpful.

Best,
-CS

[MagickalMemories]

John Hwang... I'm calling you out.

I'll state it officially... You're cynical and, possibly, a pessimist.
I still have respect for you... but I'm officially labeling you a cynic. : )

Just because the guy is offering him a deal that some of us feel is inadequate, that doesn't mean he's out to screw him.

As for the 40% below retail... that depends on their quality. Anything NOS or better shouldn't go below Warstore pricing, IMO. I can definitely see your point about NOT starting at base 100%, though. After all, they guy's got stuff easily purchased, whereas our obese Japanese friend here has OOP stuff that's actively sought after. So, it might be a good idea to start @ below 100%.


Eric
-the NOT cynical-

[porkuslime]

I choose Bartertown because I've made awesome, AWESOME friends here (gubnutz, stanislav, ursidae, ironbrother, wyverneye, bitzjunkie and -dare I say- very friendly interactions with MagickalMemories & Porkuslime); I've been a member at eBay since May 10, 1998 ---> friends = ZERO, fees paid = hundreds.

Best,
-CS

Oh go ahead.. dare. You had good questions and more importantly, an open mind and a GREAT attitude.

Your post sounds, blushingly, like a perfect ad for places like Bartertown. Thanks for writing it.

-Porkuslime

[Adunaphel]

Yeah, I guess I was the devil's advocate. But, keeping something because you "value" the value can sometimes bite you. I didn't come anywhere near those prices for mint dual lands when I sold them. I didn't have antiquities, but the cards I had didn't sell for much. Maybe 25-40% of their "value". Not OFF their value, but OF their value. In fact, I think it was less than that.

But, if popular wisdom says you are being "screwed", then you shouldn't trade them.

Maybe in ten years they'll be worth enough in "value" to get yourself a better army...

Now who's the cynic?

You realize, connivingsumo that I am kidding to a certain degree. When you post a question like this SOMEBODY has to take the opposite angle. I thought my Magic cards were worth a good bit. They weren't. God knows, I put a bunch of money into it. I could tell you a funny story about my wedding night and Magic cards, but that would be off topic.

But, ultimately it is obviously up to you. Personally, there is NO way I would've offered you that much for those cards. But, then again that is more of a function of what I learned of the cards "real value".

So, shoot me up guys. Set me straight. Show me the error in my ways.

I agree with you about Bartertown being awesome. I also agree that with feebay and paypal, you end up losing a LOT of your value.

Good luck. May your 7 lands and 2 packs rake you in a full 5000 point DKOK army.

If you get a trade like that I would like to rub you for good luck.

Karl

[Ironhide]

Well, being a card/comic book collector/buyer for many a year, first thing you have to take into account of cards and comics are their value. If you have handled either (say played or read them) that automatically depreciates them down to Fine or Very Fine.

Personally, I don't buy or trade cards/comics over the internet because I want to be able to look at the product. I would be miffed if someone told me a card/comic was Mint and then got the item and come to find tell-tale fingerprints on the item.

[connivingsumo]

If you get a trade like that I would like to rub you for good luck.

Heh... if I got that much, I'd rub myself! Oh... wait, that didn't sound right

Like I said, I value all the posts provided here; they're all relevant, all in good intentions, and all thoughtful.

I feel every post here had my best interest in mind -even if the response had been "ya dude - great deal" or "hey - you're totally screwing that kid - throw in some more stuff for him!"

So I'm thankful for the community and the time folks took to answer my question(s).

I would be miffed if someone told me a card/comic was Mint and then got the item and come to find tell-tale fingerprints on the item.

I couldn't agree more. Throughout any process where something is truly "collectable" I am more than lucid in descriptions.

Officially, I would rank them at VeryGood - Excellent, not mint or near mint only because they have been played, but they're not all worn, bent, torn, peeling, marks on front/back, etc. etc.

The person in question has made it very clear that they intend to play them; therefore, the "need" and "have" are a good match.

Best,
Rik