Dont' MAKE yourself a VICTIM!

[starslayer]

Hey guys.

Be careful out there. Use common sense. Trust your gut feeling. I look through the "deadbeat" and "bad trader" section - and think to myself - "most of the time this could be avoided."

-If you are new and have low/zero references- only deal with well-established traders. Yes, it limits your potential trades a bit, but it is better to be careful. Who has more to lose? The trader who's been here 5 years and has 300+ refs or the guy who joined last week with 1 reference?

-Be cautious if it sounds like too good of a deal. The models could be badly glued, or globbed with paint. The extra time/effort to fix the models wont be worth the meager savings. If they can be fixed at all. Ask for pics if possible.

-Watch out for people with low references/new members demanding to be paid first. Dont fall into the "buying is different then trading" crap. This isnt Walmart, its Bartertown. You have to earn trust.

-This is NOT a put-down to traders from other Countries. But be careful when dealing with traders outside your own Country. Shipping will usually be exopensive. There may be long shipping delays. Longer distances, means more oppurtunity for your box/items to be lost/damaged.

Also watch new traders from lands far,far ,far away, who want you to ship first. Again, unless they are established here. If you get ripped-off , it will be hard enough to get your items/$$$ back or file charges. The fact is- if the person is from another Country- your chances are almost ZERO.
Why would a new trader demand payment first, and try to make many trades in a short time with only foreign Countries?? Think about it! Free cash, no chance of prosecution or the victim knocking on your door.

I have many trades here and have been a member for long while. I was new here once with zero refs at one time too. Sometimes you see a deal that you think is too good to pass up, but something just doesnt seem right. Trust your feelings. It isnt a good deal if they take your stuff & you get nothing. They'll be other deals. I have never been ripped-off here. There were one or two close calls, but I havent been taken yet. Why? Because I built my references, chose my trade partners carefully, & trust my instincts.

DONT MAKE YOURSELF A VICTIM!

If you are ripped-off, then post a thread here, with ALL emails/PMs. Follow the rules here. Then file charges. If you dont take the trouble,then there is ZERO chance of recovery & he'll do it again & again to someone else.

Good Trading!
Starslayer

[porkuslime]

Great advice..

Well written as well..

Thanks Starslayer..

-Porkuslime

[locust]

One thing that you missed, and something I've done for each of my few trades, is to check the quality of the references. Just because someone has a good rating doesn't mean that all their trades have gone shiningly well. This can be seen from some the recent Bad Trader Reports and Deadbeat/Backout Reports. Someone may have a good references, but a few may have a qualifier attached to it, like; received items, but were posted three weeks after -trader X- said they were sent; or, got items but were poorly packed and had broken parts. Multiple things like this would make me wary of trading with -trader X-. Just something else to think about.

[MagickalMemories]

Nice post, SS.

I'd like to elaborate on something you touched on:

-Be cautious if it sounds like too good of a deal. The models could be badly glued, or globbed with paint. The extra time/effort to fix the models wont be worth the meager savings. If they can be fixed at all. Ask for pics if possible.

This is a personal pet peeve of my own. Two of my first 5 or 10 trades were with the same trader. BOTH times, I presumed he'd be forthright about the quality of his items. I'm the kind who will go to great lengths to give you specific details of what I'm sending you. I presumed, incorrectly, that other people here would be the same. It's simply not true, however.

So, here's the deal... If someone says they have X amount of Y model, but they don't specifically state the condition, ASK THEM.
If you are only looking for NEW sculpt models in NEW condition, be SPECIFIC about that up front.

If you do a trade for someone who says he has "20 Tac SM's, Newest sculpt," but doesn't tell you the condition, and you don't ask, you really don't have a leg to stand on if you don't like what you got.

Here are some questions you might think about asking for EVERY trade (these are model specific questions, but can be changed to refer to books, video games, etc):

1) What edition is the mini? Newest sculpt, 3rd edition? BFM? AoBR? Rogue Trader? Other?
2) What condition is it? MIB? New on sprue? New OFF sprue? Painted/primed? Primed OVER paint (Yes. I ask this... because I've had it happen to me)? Stripped? If it's stripped, how thoroughly? Other?
2a) If assembled, what is the assembly quality? Arms are on the correct sides of the body (again... if it hadn't happened...)? Pieces line up properly? Mold lined cleaned? Globbed glue?
2b) If painted, what is the paint quality? Ready to game? Abote table top? Display? Needs stripped? Was once painted, but looks as if it was caried around in someone's pocket with a whole host of other minis?

Once these are answered, the answers may inspire more questions. If the response you get is vague, ask the question again. Tell them, point blank, that the respone was vague. Ask for specifics. If you don't get specifics, then Frag it! The deal isn't worth getting hosed over.

Eric

[vesrian]

Here are some questions you might think about asking for EVERY trade (these are model specific questions, but can be changed to refer to books, video games, etc):

1) What edition is the mini? Newest sculpt, 3rd edition? BFM? AoBR? Rogue Trader? Other?
2) What condition is it? MIB? New on sprue? New OFF sprue? Painted/primed? Primed OVER paint (Yes. I ask this... because I've had it happen to me)? Stripped? If it's stripped, how thoroughly? Other?
2a) If assembled, what is the assembly quality? Arms are on the correct sides of the body (again... if it hadn't happened...)? Pieces line up properly? Mold lined cleaned? Globbed glue?
2b) If painted, what is the paint quality? Ready to game? Abote table top? Display? Needs stripped? Was once painted, but looks as if it was caried around in someone's pocket with a whole host of other minis?

Once these are answered, the answers may inspire more questions. If the response you get is vague, ask the question again. Tell them, point blank, that the respone was vague. Ask for specifics. If you don't get specifics, then Frag it! The deal isn't worth getting hosed over.

That's good advice. A lot of trade problems are the result of people assuming instead of asking. And just like starslayer said, a lot of these problems could be avoided. Never feel bad about asking questions. You might not care about all the things listed above, but don't be afraid to ask about the ones you do care about.

Another question to add to the list: "have there been any conversions? and if so, what was done?"

Also keep in mind that some things, like assembly quality and paint quality, are subjective. I've seen many "well painted" models that look horrible. It's not necessarily that the person was lying about them being well painted. Its just that people have different standards. I agree that getting pictures is the best way to tell, but not everyone is able/willing to send in focus pictures of their models. Still I'd advise anyone to be extremely wary of buying or trading for any painted army sight unseen regardless of how it's described. If they claim they can't take pictures because they don't have a digital camera, ask them to find a friend who does.
(MM, maybe if your new forum ever gets made there could be a guide to taking pictures of figures, or at least links to such guides elsewhere)

[JohnHwangBT]

FWIW, I got to 100 Feedback with hardly any trades where I had to send first.

My strategy was:
1. Do *lots* of small (low-risk) deals with people ZERO / lower references. Take full advantage of Btown practice of "lower rating sends first", and *always* make them send first because they're ZERO or less than you.
2. Be *very* clear about what is being traded, and when trades should complete. Push hard for fast trades with timelines - don't let the trade go slack.
3. Push hard on Feedback exchange to get your rating up
4. Take full advantage of "selling isn't trading", and make people pay first.
5. Avoid any International deals, unless absolutely necessary - the additional postage cost and effort generally isn't worth it.

[starslayer]

Thanks guys.
Im sure alot of you veteran traders out there have more tips.

[govannon]

4. Take full advantage of "selling isn't trading", and make people pay first.

To me, trading and selling are the same here. It should go by refs.

Govannon

[mrrshann618]

4. Take full advantage of "selling isn't trading", and make people pay first.

To me, trading and selling are the same here. It should go by refs.

Govannon

This is an argument that has been beaten by nearly every instrument in these forums. It all comes down to personal preference.
I for one go by Refs, Buying/selling does not make you trustworthy here your refs do.
Then again there are those who insist that money is the end all be all and you buy before shipping.

I'm not wanting to start this all over again. This issue is a personal thing, and is to be dealt with during the bartering process.

[JohnHwangBT]

4. Take full advantage of "selling isn't trading", and make people pay first.

To me, trading and selling are the same here. It should go by refs.

Well, now that I've got 100+ Feedback rating, I agree!

[govannon]

4. Take full advantage of "selling isn't trading", and make people pay first.

To me, trading and selling are the same here. It should go by refs.

Well, now that I've got 100+ Feedback rating, I agree!

Glad you see it my way!

[flagg07]

While a bit off topic, I think it's just as important to note for new traders.

Delivery Confirmation:
-Proof I shipped
-Proof they shipped

Piece of mind is priceless.

I use it on every single package I send, no matter.

[JohnHwangBT]

Totally agreed. Delivery Confirmation is the only way to go!

[kturock]

While a bit off topic, I think it's just as important to note for new traders.

Delivery Confirmation:
-Proof I shipped
-Proof they shipped

Piece of mind is priceless.

I use it on every single package I send, no matter.

also something that's changed recenty,
only d/c or the tracking number on express mail or registered mail; can be checked and verified online.
insurance numbers can not be checked. [thats a recent change.]

customs numbers can be checked, but they aren't always scanned/entered, more than once. [at point of entry or handling by customs].