How can I inquire about a trade between two other B-towners?

[Massawyrm]

Hey guys, I think many of you are missing the point of the post. He's not trying to take care of this through Bartertown or fill out a BTR. He's asking us how to get in touch with the person being traded with in hopes in getting the info he needs to confront the bad trader himself and has been very careful not to use words like Authorities. It's clear that he's taking steps to resolve this before making it ugly.

[JohnHwangBT]

THIS TRANSCATION OCCURED OUTSIDE OF BARTERTOWN.

That doesn't matter. For all intents and purposes, the OP is notifying BTown of sale of goods that are misrepresented. From a pure legal perspective, the OP would have a lien on those goods, making them non-salable.

BTown is obliged to takedown the notice in the same way that eBay is obliged to takedown auctions - and following the eBay model, the OP is NOT required to provide a shred of "proof". The mere accusation is sufficent in the United States.

[JohnHwangBT]

If we require him to show that he has legal ownership (for lack of a better term) of these models, then we could eventually reach the point where everyone has to provide that information before posting items for sale.

If every offer for sale were challenged in this way, then yes, Btown would eventually require proof of ownership for listings.

But this is an exception in which the ownership is challenged. So in this particular case, it is appropriate to require proof of ownership or to pull the listing.

[MagickalMemories]

If we require him to show that he has legal ownership (for lack of a better term) of these models, then we could eventually reach the point where everyone has to provide that information before posting items for sale.

If every offer for sale were challenged in this way, then yes, Btown would eventually require proof of ownership for listings.

But this is an exception in which the ownership is challenged. So in this particular case, it is appropriate to require proof of ownership or to pull the listing.

Well, I definitely won't argue the point, because, as I said, I'm literally 50/50 on this one. I'd be arguing with myself as much as anyone else. LOL

I do think, however, that pulling the ad is senseless, however, as the items have already been sold.

As for contacting the buyer... He'll have to know who it is. If he does... Well, I touched on that in an earlier post.

Eric

[Ironhide]

Well, if we preach on hear to obey the rules and the law (local, state, and federal), then shouldn't we be against this type of action? Even if it happened offsite? Because if this becomes a common practice on here, it would hurt the sites reputation, don't ya think?

[starslayer]

THIS TRANSCATION OCCURED OUTSIDE OF BARTERTOWN.

That doesn't matter. For all intents and purposes, the OP is notifying BTown of sale of goods that are misrepresented. From a pure legal perspective, the OP would have a lien on those goods, making them non-salable.

BTown is obliged to takedown the notice in the same way that eBay is obliged to takedown auctions - and following the eBay model, the OP is NOT required to provide a shred of "proof". The mere accusation is sufficent in the United States.

Sure it matters. Wheres the proof? Emails or some communication that "said models" were painted, a contract for painting services, something, anything.... If he painted the figs there MUST have been some kind of communication.
Bartertown isn't "obliged" to do squat. The Mods can CHOOSE to take it down. They dont have to.

Why not simply PM the guy & ask him???? Ask if the models offered are the same,etc,etc.

According to how you want it to work;
Lets say Im mad at you. I'll say you stole my models. It smears your reputation here & your ad is pulled. For not a shred of proof?? Just my saying so. (on a deal not from Btown, no less)

Again, why no Police???

I totally respect what he is trying to do though. (warning Btown)

[Adunaphel]

Beowulf, I would think you should just try to PM the possible buyer of the figures and if he says, "Yes, I bought them." Then you can go back to your perspective Bad Trader and confront him with the evidence and ask for your rightful payment.

If that doesn't work, you will probably have to do the BTR thing.
Although, if I remember correctly, Hinantafanboy didn't get much support for his BTR because it occured outside of Bartertown. In fact, I recall several Bartertowners saying that it didn't have anything to do with Bartertown and it shouldn't have been posted. You might want to keep that in mind.

Karl

[beowulfdahunter]

Wow, a guy asks a simple question and get jumped on by everyone...I sure love this site.

That being said. I guess I need to use smaller words so people understand me.

1.I DO NOT KNOW WHO THE GOODS WHERE TRADED TO, SO I WAS ASKING IT IT WAS POSSIBLE TO FIND OUT WHO GOT THEM.

2.THE PERSON I PAINTED THEM FOR I AM NO LONGER IN CONTACT WITH

3.I HAVE NO INTENTION OF GETITNG THE COPS INVOLVED, I AM NOT TRYING TO TURN THIS INTO A FREAKING FEDERAL CASE. I AM JUST CURIOUS IF THE MODELS ARE IN THE OWNERSHIP OF SOMEONE ELSE OR THE ORIGNINAL PERSON.

4.I AM NOT LOOKING TO GET ANYONE KICKED OFF OF B-TOWN, NOR DO I WANT TO GET KICKED OFF HENCE THE REASON I AM ASKING IF IT IS POSSIBLE NOR DO i PLAN TO FILE A BTR AS THIS VIOLATES B-TOWN RULES.

Ok then caps off. As to why the models left my ownership, it was someone I considered a friend and I still do, I had taken some money on the job, but was owed a balence. I took it on good faith I would get paid, and that was 10 months ago. If I get paid for them I get paid,, if not oh well, just come closure would be nice. I mean I am not going to call the cops on the person who got the models or anyhting like that.

As for proof, I have that, and if I wanted to track the person down for court purposes I could, but why bother. We live in such a sue happy time that it is a freaking joke, why add to it. I am trying to act with honor in the situation.

[JohnHwangBT]

Sure it matters. Wheres the proof? Emails or some communication that "said models" were painted, a contract for painting services, something, anything.... If he painted the figs there MUST have been some kind of communication.
Bartertown isn't "obliged" to do squat. The Mods can CHOOSE to take it down. They dont have to.

Why not simply PM the guy & ask him???? Ask if the models offered are the same,etc,etc.

According to how you want it to work;
Lets say Im mad at you. I'll say you stole my models. It smears your reputation here & your ad is pulled. For not a shred of proof?? Just my saying so. (on a deal not from Btown, no less)

Again, why no Police???

I totally respect what he is trying to do though. (warning Btown)

Let's be *very* clear. In the DCMA universe, "proof" is irrelevant. It's why Sikorsky can demand that eBay cancel any model kit auction with the word "Sikorsky" in the title. It's why any media company can demand YouTube take down any video at any time. Why?

Because if the site fails to take it down, the site is no longer protected from lawsuit as a neutral party. Stupid, but true. In other words, if the OP had placed a lien on the items, or otherwise had some interest in the items, and Btown failed to do this, then Btown could be named as a co-defendant or accessory. Not good.

So the smart thing for most sites is to simply roll over.

So it's not how I want it to work per se. But it's how things work in the real world.

And what's nice is that, in this case, it's the right thing to do.


Now in the case of you falsely accusing me, if you knowingly do so (which is what you're positing), and I demonstrate otherwise (which would easily be the case, because I keep good records), I've got you for slander and defamation. That's a court case I can win and collect damages on. Which is why people normally don't make wild accusations lightly. Ultimately, it'd blow up in your face. Big time. But at least you'd get to pull one or two of my auction postings.

[MagickalMemories]

Wow, a guy asks a simple question and get jumped on by everyone...I sure love this site.

Hmm. Where to begin?
First, it was not so simple a question. You left out a few (important, in come cases) details. We were left to make presumptions on our own... and I doubt anyone here guessed it would be a "friend" you were inquiring about.
Secondly, I don't see that anyone really jumped ON you. Many people posted opinions, suggestions and advice in an attempt to help. You seem to be defensive and taking it wrong.

That being said. I guess I need to use smaller words so people understand me.

Or clearly written sentences grouped in sensible paragraphs.
We's kin hanndel tha big werds.

1.I DO NOT KNOW WHO THE GOODS WHERE TRADED TO, SO I WAS ASKING IT IT WAS POSSIBLE TO FIND OUT WHO GOT THEM.

Actually, that isn't what you asked.
You asked:

...is it possible to inquire about a transaction between two other B-towners?

Your post never indicates that you don't know who received them... or was supposed to. It only states that he sold them to someone.

2.THE PERSON I PAINTED THEM FOR I AM NO LONGER IN CONTACT WITH

Perhaps you should get into contact with him, then.

3.I HAVE NO INTENTION OF GETITNG THE COPS INVOLVED, I AM NOT TRYING TO TURN THIS INTO A FREAKING FEDERAL CASE. I AM JUST CURIOUS IF THE MODELS ARE IN THE OWNERSHIP OF SOMEONE ELSE OR THE ORIGNINAL PERSON.

(Emphasis mine)

Actually, according to your initial post, it's a bit more than that. Apparently, you want to get paid, as well. If you're simply wondering who has possession now, you're going about it the wrong way.

4.I AM NOT LOOKING TO GET ANYONE KICKED OFF OF B-TOWN, NOR DO I WANT TO GET KICKED OFF <snip>

(Emphasis mine again)

Well, it's a good thing you didn't get indignant and rude, then. That would be in violation of rule #6.

Ok then caps off. As to why the models left my ownership, it was someone I considered a friend and I still do, I had taken some money on the job, but was owed a balence. I took it on good faith I would get paid, and that was 10 months ago. If I get paid for them I get paid,, if not oh well, just come closure would be nice. I mean I am not going to call the cops on the person who got the models or anyhting like that.

I'm glad you used the caps lock. It made things SO much easier to read.
You consider a guy who owes you money (probably a notable sum), has owed it for 10 months, and is not showing any signs of wanting to pay it back a FRIEND?
Wanna be MY friend? I could use an interest free loan that I don't have to repay!
He doesn't seem to feel the same about you. Otherwise, he'd have paid you.
If you want closure, it's within your power to get it. Send him an email & tell him you consider the debt forgiven. Easy as pie. You have closure, he has the money and you both have your sunshiney friendship.

Eric

[GMMStudios]

then we could eventually reach the point where everyone has to provide that information before posting items for sale.

What? Sometimes I cant tell if you are joking or not.

This is not a normal trade, it is an exception with evidence brought forward that they were stolen.

Silly goose

Hey guys, I think many of you are missing the point of the post. He's not trying to take care of this through Bartertown or fill out a BTR.

Exactly. I think people see other people complain and automatically assume the victim wants to string the offending party up through Bartertown rules and punishments.

Well, if we preach on hear to obey the rules and the law (local, state, and federal), then shouldn't we be against this type of action? Even if it happened offsite? Because if this becomes a common practice on here, it would hurt the sites reputation, don't ya think?

The problem is that 50% of the time this forum wants to do the right thing and the other 50% they want to be hardcore followers of the rules no matter what that results in, ignoring morality.

Brandon

[Adunaphel]

Oh. Sorry Beowulf. No worries mate.
It would seem by your second post that you don't have a problem.
And you didn't really want our opinions anyway...

I guess you could walk around your town with a sign up that says "somebody sold something that I didn't get paid for". That might help.

If you were going to get bent out of shape about getting our opinions when you didn't really give us the information, then expect a little bit of sarcasm on our part concerning your post.

Really. I mean if you are not going to name names, you are not going to post a BTR, and you have no clue which Bartertowner (and there are quite a few of us) has the figures that you painted, what ARE you asking for?

Did you take photos of your work? If you could post a comprehensive list of the figures and paint scheme we could all check our closets (that are packed with figures) and see if we have some of them...

RANT OFF. And look I didn't use caps.
I am at a loss for words (even big ones). How in great Hades did you expect us to help? Unless, of course, you are banking on your "friend" seeing this post...

I agree with Starslayer. You should call the police. A crime has been commited.


Karl

[starslayer]

This isnt Ebay. The Mods can do what they want. I have yet to even see a list of models "stolen".(painted, whatever)

Beowulf- if you didnt want anyone's opinion- then dont post in a public forum. You should PM the Mods here directly. It seems you only wanted the opinions of people that say what you want to hear.

You dont care enough to keep records, emails, contact the PD, anything.
"if i get paid for them I get paid, if not , oh well, just some closure would be nice."- your words. So consider it closed. You dont want to make the effort, and the guy is not going to pay you.

Oh yeah- some body stole some Space Marines from me once. Pull all Marine ads from Bartertown please.

The Mods have yet to make a decision, or even post in this thread. It will be interesting to see what they do. My prediction is they will close it for no proof, & do nothing as it was not even a Bartertown transcation. The Mods on Bartertown cant protect the world, going around righting wrongs,. They have enough to handle here, with transcations that actually occured at Bartertown.

It is admirable that you are trying to warn Bartertown, but your attitude & the way you went about it stink.

[MEDEVL]

I think everybody's panties are getting bunched over nothing. Before the attitude really starts flying just take a minute and chill out. Beowulf asked a question about a strange circumstance, there were some misunderstandings, he's peeved about the deal gone bad (understandably) and then it all went horribly wrong...
I'm not taking sides but rather than keep sniping back and forth at each other just move on with your day. No sense getting all riled up for an issue that we really don't have any control over. Beowulf, don't get too discouraged you might yet see some resolution. Take the advice here or leave it, but don't get mad at people that are trying to give you the help that you asked for. All in all let's keep it civil.

[flagg07]

Wow, a guy asks a simple question and get jumped on by everyone...I sure love this site.

Reading Comprehension FTW Drama Queen.