A few questions about references

[Adunaphel]

Hello Fellow Bartertowners,

I have just a few questions.

The first one is about asking for references. When is it considered intimidation to ask for a reference from a trader? Or should you even ask for a reference?
I have done several trades of late where I leave a positive reference and have had trouble getting the other trader to do the same.
I guess I might rub other traders the wrong way, although I try to be fair and I certainly uphold my end of the bargain on every trade.
I had one trade recently where a new trader agreed to ship first if I paid with paypal when the item arrived, and to his credit he shipped it out rather quickly and when I received it I left him a positive reference and paid through paypal within the hour.
I asked if I could get a reference and he thanked me for leaving him a reference but he has not done the same.
Would it be OK to remind him or is that some form of intimidation?
I don't mean to be picky, but references seem to be what everybody goes by and I have missed out on my fair share of them here.
I am willing to deal with new traders and willing to ship first to traders with more references, but it's kind of hard to build up when you can't get the other traders to do the same thing.
Is anybody else having this problem?

Karl

[demonprince]

I think it is ok to remind someone to leave a referance. I know sometimes I forget to leave them, or forget who I have left them for, so I actually appreciate the reminder, one less thing to think about in my hectic life! Thats just my take on it though.

[Stanislav]

It is the nature of the beast unfortunately. Many refs fall through the cracks of obscurity, whether you are a veteran trader or a new guy. Anyone that has any amount of references probably only shows about 75-80% of their actual total, just because some people forget or don't leave them at all.

Is it okay to ask for one? If you think you have done everything in the right, then absolutely. I wouldn't hound someone, but a reminder or two over a week period isn't a bad thing. Make sure they are getting your reminders though. When I have a list of them to do, I sometimes put them off until I have time to do all of them at once, even though I am guilty of not leaving the great one I promised a couple of days ago.

Oh well, my .02.

Rich

[Rhaalidor]

As far as I see it, intimidation is the use of the threat of bad feedback in order to further one's cause. To remind someone that they have forgotten to leave feedback is commonplace. I have to do it every so often. People just forget.

[peacemystic]

Nah,its not intimidation at all,if anything its reminding someone of a obligation that at best they have forgotten or at worst,just don't care enough to give.
I don't usually give feedback until its given to me,I just got sick of giving feedback,and not getting any in return.
I know at one time,there was a movement that only gave the person who didn't leave feedback only 1 point,don't know what ever happened to that.
Cheers

[insidius]

I don't think it's intimidation at all, unless you say it maliciously, like 'give me positive feedback or else,' that sort of thing. *laughs*

In any event, sorry I couldn't get around to giving you feedback sooner, I was kinda backpacking through California at the time with nothing to my name.

[MagickalMemories]

Like everyone else has said, it absolutely is not.

ITL intimidations is when you threaten to leave someone a "less than positive" reference if they don't conform to your wishes (whatever they happen to be at the time).
My personal definition would only really include a threat of a negative, but I think I could see how a neutral could be included in that definition, as well.

What I would probably do is send them an email/PM (however you were communicating with them), reminding them that they haven't left you the positive ref that youearned. If they're that new (say, less than 20 ref's), I might even include a reminder that the ITL is the backbone for Bartertown. It's what a large part of the negotiation process hinges on. I'd let them know that, if they don't leave the reference for you, they're not helping you to establish the reputation you're trying hard to earn.

If, after a couple weeks, the "reminders" still don't work, I'd post a "do not trade" list in my sig line with his trade name added to it & the reason they're there... Personally, I am getting ready to create one to insert in my sig, so - literally- if it was me, I'd be able to add them to it.

Eric

[brettness37]

I'd say so far here about 1/4 or 5 people don't leave feedback. It's disappointing and annoying, not too mention it hampers the way the system works. I understand delayed feedback because of life events or whatever, but plain not doing it is just lazy. Up until now I've always left feedback as soon as the other person's side was finished with, but I think I'm going to start waiting until I've recieved feedback as well.

[GMMStudios]

but I think I'm going to start waiting until I've recieved feedback as well.

But maybe the other person is doing the same thing? This will only cause less refs to be left in the long run. Look at Ebay, half the time refs arent left because both sides are waiting for the other to leave one first, even if it went smoothly.

[Stanislav]

brettness,

I know it is frustrating, but I find it absolutely infuriating for someone to hold my feedback "hostage" until I send them one. If my part of the trade or sale is complete, if I can, I leave feedback immediately. Sometimes it takes a couple of days for the real world to stop spinning for a while.

If your trading partner's work is done, and acceptable then a reference should be left. This means you have recieved cash or goods (paypal, whatever). His work is done, and he should get his just rewards. The same is reciprocal. Whenever your part of the deal is done, he/she should leave a reference.

I know, hold on...many times this doesn't happen. I have been a victim of it, and probably even a culprit at some time here.

What I described is how the system SHOULD work. If everyone starts hoarding and keeping feedback hostage, then the way it works changes.

Like MM said, keep a list of people that have done this and let them know. However turning into a miser yourself is only perpetuating the wrong.

I'll get off the soapbox and all of you can tear my arguments to shreds now.

An opinion from someone who TRIES to do the right thing when given the opportunity.

Rich

[brettness37]

But maybe the other person is doing the same thing? This will only cause less refs to be left in the long run. Look at Ebay, half the time refs arent left because both sides are waiting for the other to leave one first, even if it went smoothly.

You're right, but then instead of saying "Hey, if everything made it there ok, could you leave me a ref?" I can say, "hey, I'm just waiting to add a ref for you, if everything made it there ok, could you leave one for me?"

I like the reputation system, and I take it seriously. There is no other way for us to decide wether or not it's worth it to risk sending something halfway around the world or not. As I said, I like to leave feedback as soon as the other person has finished their side of the transaction, but I'm not sure how to make certain that I get feedback as well.

[Stanislav]

DC got his opinion out before I could finish typing. Same thing.

[Stanislav]

You're right, but then instead of saying "Hey, if everything made it there ok, could you leave me a ref?" I can say, "hey, I'm just waiting to add a ref for you, if everything made it there ok, could you leave one for me?"

Still sounds like a hostage negotiator.

[brettness37]

I totally agree with what you guys are saying here, and if not for apathy and laziness it would be fine, but the difference in missing 20% of your references at over 50 or nearly 500(!!!) is different than at a 20-30 rating. You guys can be justified in demanding that other traders send first and protecting yourself, whereas someone with a lower trade rating has to take a lot more risk trading with people around the same rating (which most people seem to be). Again just my 2 cents.

[peacemystic]

You're right, but then instead of saying "Hey, if everything made it there ok, could you leave me a ref?" I can say, "hey, I'm just waiting to add a ref for you, if everything made it there ok, could you leave one for me?"

Still sounds like a hostage negotiator.

I total disagree
if putting someones name on a personal DO NOT TRADE LIST that bad-mouths the other person everytime you post anything is not making everyone who trades with you a perpetual hostage to you,i don't know what is.

I'd much rather have some say"once you post of ref Bad or Good i'll post your ref for you" than to have my name plasted everwhere you post.

Cheers