"Make an offer" Etiquette?

For general questions, rule questions, trade advice, FAQ's, and other assistance-related matters. This forum is for Bartertown related questions/help ONLY.

Moderator: Moderators

MagickalMemories ( 832 )
Lord Logorrheic!
Posts: 16741
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:38 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO - USA

Post by MagickalMemories »

The second, and this is where I disagree with you, is you placed a conditon on that phrase. You said "I'll take $40 or if I can't get that much I'll take the best offer."


I agree that a condition was placed. I just don't agree with what the condition means.
In the example you site here, you are adding words to the person's post in order to get it to mean what you assume it does.

Without adding any words, only a preface, let me explain what I'm saying (in a wordier way LOL).

OBO

We have to agree that this means, exactly, "or best offer." Regardless how we INTERPRET "or best offer," we just have to agree that it's what OBO stands for.
I know that, for me and you, Med, that is a given. Anyone who disagrees with that meaning, however, can just stop reading this section and skip along to the next part.

Okay...
"XYZ, Or Best Offer."
What does it mean. Literally, it means that the person will take XYZ, or he will take the best offer. I think we agree on that part.
Pretty straight forward there.

Now, if there is a $40 offer and a $60 offer, which one is "best?"
Presuming we have the same value on the dollar, the $60 is offering the best.
Taking "OBO" at face value, there can be no other factual interpretation.

In my opinion if a sale price is listed, even with the OBO, you should have to honor that price. The logic just doesn't support taking more since that secondary parameter is nullified if somebody offers the sale price.
Okay.
But now you're referring to opinion.
At this point, it's no longer about what it means, but what you WANT it to mean.
Dude. I feel ya.
(not literally :mrgreen:)

What or who decides that the secondary parameter is nullified, though?
Again, aside from opinion, there's nothing in the person's "OBO" statement that does that.
I'm not meaning to offend you, and I hope I don't, but there's a flaw in your theory. The logic you refer to is based on an opinion. Logic has to be based on fact. If it does not, then all kinds of preposterous statements HAVE to be true.

"I think the color brown makes things look rotten. Therefore, logic dictates that any food that is brown in color should be thrown out because it is rotten."

I think that's where we're splitting apart.

Our interpretations of the definition of "OBO" are different, leading everything else to spiral away from each other.
Maybe it's just me having sour grapes but that's how I ALWAYS understood the phrase to work.
LOL
It might be part of it (sour grapes, that is).
Part of it is social. If, in every situation you've encountered before, that was the understood interpretation, then a new interpretation can be quite a shocker... kind of like the first time you smile at a pit bull without realizing that showing your teeth to a dog is a sign of aggression. LOL

The learning comes with a bump (of sorts) sometimes.
Even Ebay's BO function has a sale price listed. To my knowledge you can't offer more than that, only less. If you offered more it would just default to the sale price wouldn't it???
We can't compare the 2.
Ebay's created on a relatively definite structure with certain rules and givens about the site, auctions, and how things work. BTown is far more subjective, with no solid groundwork to refer to, in that instance. BTown has no defaults for anything, where trade rules and etiquette are concerned.

On Ebay, if a person has a "BIN" price, you can snap it up for that price & it's yours. TECHNICALLY speaking, someone can't come along behind you, offer more, and get it. It's not how the system is set up. It's set up so that the seller determines the value RANGE or MINIMUM of the item and the buyer determines the final value within that range or above that minimum.

On BTown, the value is far more subjective. The value is whatever the seller can get for the item that meets his desires.

If I want to get, $40 for an item, then $60 CERTAINLY meets my desire. Exceeds it, in fact.

Since BTown is not organized in a way to allow someone to "lock in" a price (the way BIN or bidding does), nothing is set in stone until the final deal is made.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.
wookieegunner ( 66 )
Journeyman Trader
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:04 am

Post by wookieegunner »

Rhaalidor wrote:Without a crapload of quotes trying to prove somebody wrong, or myself right:

This is BARTERtown. Somebody look it up in the #$*&@*&$@#^%@ dictionary.

You say, "make me an offer" or "best offer". You have a NIB Rhino.

I offer $10.

You have a higher amount in mind. First thing I think is "Why didn't you name your price in the beginning"? You say $25.

Okay, we are beginning the barter.

I offer $15, or maybe $20 shipped.

Still not good enough? Tell me what you're looking for. Don't ignore me. I may have low-balled you, but I am INTERESTED. You come back with $25 shipped.

That's a barter. I offer, you counter. I offer, you counter. I accept, or I move to the next ad. If you can't do this, you're really lazy, and you wouldn't know a barter if it slapped you in the face. Put your crap on eBay, where you have to choose a starting price.

No offense to anyone. Just my way of doing business. It's worked for the last 4 1/2 years.
Since you asked someone to. From Marion Webster Online:

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/barter
to trade by exchanging one commodity for another
What you are refering to is called Haggling: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haggling

Bartering does not have to include Haggling.
User avatar
Rhaalidor ( 158 )
Journeyman Trader
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:57 am
Location: Lakeland, Florida, USA
Contact:

Post by Rhaalidor »

I stand corrected. As far as I know, though, cash is still a commodity. You are correct in that what we discuss is called haggling, which is often part of the barter system. Even as we trade goods for goods, more often than not, we haggle. Here, it's a part of the system.
ancientsociety ( 842 )
Millenium Trader
Posts: 1654
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 2:46 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Post by ancientsociety »

I don't have much to add to the conversation, I agree with a lot of what's been brought up.

I will however say that, like most veterans around here, I've noticed that those who post MMAO ads seem the least likely to respond. That REALLY frelling yanks my chain - the complete and utter lack of at least polite communication. If it's a no, please just say "no, thank you". I just recently made a PM to someone with an MMAO ad. I didn't lowball but it was around 75% of retail (which, IMHO for Bartertown, is all I'm usually willing to buy @. I can frankly get a better discount and service from ChaosOrc so, while it may not be much, I think it's pretty good - better than selling on Ebay!) and not one peep back!

Now, most of you who've dealt with me know I'm a pretty nice and polite guy, but when that happens, I always want to write a followup email along the lines of "Hey !&$*(#&%*#&%(*), thanks for responding to my PM! Maybe you should take down the MMAO ad if you refuse to communicate with traders here. Save us all a big headache, !&$*#&%(*."

*ahem* Carry on...
Trading Guidelines:
1. Lower rating ships first - even if I am purchasing.
2. If you agree to buy something, you have 72hrs. in which to pay. If payment is not received in 72hrs., I will automatically post a Non-Payment/Backout thread.
3. Refs are left upon positive receipt of goods, NEVER beforehand!
4. I accept Paypal & USPS money orders and charge for shipping AT COST. I make no profit from it.
5. I trade NIB/new models at retail.
User avatar
kutzmon ( 142 )
Journeyman Trader
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:59 pm
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Post by kutzmon »

I don't think there is such a thing as low-balling on MMAO. I've made the offer, take it, haggle, or leave it. I've made low opening offers that have been accepted, refused, and haggled over until the price was more agreeable to both parties involved. As far as PMing back... it absolutely grabs me by the short hairs when you take the time to respond to a post with an offer and nothing ever comes back. Even if I've "lowballed" or am asking a question, or have exactly what somebody needs... take the time to answer damnit!!!!!! I took the time to acknowledge you, please return the courtesy.
Yes, Wyoming. It's one of the big square states out west. No, that one's Montana... no, that one's Colorado. The one in the middle, yeah, that square state.

I WILL reply to ALL pm's because it's common courtesy... yep... courtesy.
MagickalMemories ( 832 )
Lord Logorrheic!
Posts: 16741
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:38 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO - USA

Post by MagickalMemories »

ancientsociety wrote:Now, most of you who've dealt with me know I'm a pretty nice and polite guy...
**hack**
**cough, cough**
**spew**

Umm... Yeah...

::composes self::

You're a frigging regular Mahatma Ghandi!

LOL

Just "frelling" yanking your chain, my firend.


Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.
MagickalMemories ( 832 )
Lord Logorrheic!
Posts: 16741
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:38 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO - USA

Post by MagickalMemories »

kutzmon wrote:I don't think there is such a thing as low-balling on MMAO. I've made the offer, take it, haggle, or leave it. I've made low opening offers that have been accepted, refused, and haggled over until the price was more agreeable to both parties involved. As far as PMing back... it absolutely grabs me by the short hairs when you take the time to respond to a post with an offer and nothing ever comes back. Even if I've "lowballed" or am asking a question, or have exactly what somebody needs... take the time to answer damnit!!!!!! I took the time to acknowledge you, please return the courtesy.
Well, that's the problem.
YOU don't think that a low-ball offer is insulting.
I do.

If you PM me a Low-ball offer, I'm insulted. I'm not going to bother to respond to someone who would insult me on the very first PM of a conversation.

("me" and "you" are subjective here, and not necessarily meant to reflect yourself and myself).

The problem is that we (again, subjective) don't all agree and we have our different opinions on things. If we assume that someone else shares our opinion, we rist stepping on toes.



Personally, I don't respond to low-ball offers. The only exception I make is for established traders or traders I "know." They get a simple "No, thanks" or something similar... not even a counter offer.

That's just me.


Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.
vesrian ( 108 )
Resident Trader
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:42 am
Location: Iowa, USA

Post by vesrian »

MagickalMemories wrote: Well, that's the problem.
YOU don't think that a low-ball offer is insulting.
I do.
And according to the poll, about 1 in 3 people also find it rude or bad ettiqutte. (yeah i know it's not a representative sample, but it's what we've got) So when lowballing, realize that about a third of the time, the other guy's gonna find it rude. Nothing stopping anyone from doing it, of course.
kutzmon wrote:As far as PMing back... it absolutely grabs me by the short hairs when you take the time to respond to a post with an offer and nothing ever comes back. Even if I've "lowballed" or am asking a question, or have exactly what somebody needs... take the time to answer damnit!!!!!! I took the time to acknowledge you, please return the courtesy.
Most times i agree it's polite to reply. But, lowballing and getting pissed if you don't get a reply... seriously , think about it:
"I'm going to be rude to you. But you better be nice to me." That's how 1 in 3 people are likely to interpret your statement. Given that, can you see how they might feel justified ignoring you?


Edited to add:
For those who've said that there's nthing wrong with lowballing someone who posts MMAO: What if they said "Make me a reasonable offer" instead. Would it still be OK to lowball them?
I follow the generally accepted practice that the person with the lower rating ships first.
my references: click here
User avatar
kutzmon ( 142 )
Journeyman Trader
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:59 pm
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Post by kutzmon »

Well, I guess that's just the nature of the beast. People are going to be insulted or not according to their personal beliefs. When dealing with the public you have to make the decision whether to take that chance or not. As I'm a purchaser in real life I'll take the chance to step on toes. It's the only way to find out exactly what the other party has to offer. If I make, or receive, a lower than average offer I mean no, and take no, offense at the gesture.
Yes, Wyoming. It's one of the big square states out west. No, that one's Montana... no, that one's Colorado. The one in the middle, yeah, that square state.

I WILL reply to ALL pm's because it's common courtesy... yep... courtesy.
User avatar
SteveBerenyi ( 228 )
Expert Trader
Posts: 503
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:52 pm
Location: Butte, MT

Post by SteveBerenyi »

i still stand by my earlier statement.

Kutzman. that is one of the funniest sig's i've seen.

BTW being from montana, it is not square :D
My current projects:
http://dilusionsofgrandeur.blogspot.com/
Cryx: 50 Points
Trollbloods: 50 Points
Salamanders: 2500 Points
Biker Marines: 2500 Points
Adunaphel ( 812 )
Millenium Trader
Posts: 1347
Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 9:05 pm
Location: Tucson, Arizona USA

Post by Adunaphel »

"a reasonable offer"?????
What is that?
It sounds like 1 in 3 on Bartertown need to lighten up.
As for not replying, I find it a little obnoxious, but I figure the other party was no longer interested and I should look elsewhere.

If you are selling stuff here on Bartertown and you don't go through the trouble of putting a price or percentage (which even a lazy Bartertowner can do), then expect your fellow Bartertowners to offer what THEY want to give you for your items. They can't read your mind, and as Medevl said, some guys are just getting out or just want to get rid of a box of "stuff" that sits in the corner and their wives yell at them about....

Trust me, I know.

So, we can establish that the average Bartertowner CAN'T read your mind, so if you want a certain price, list it.
If not, don't get upset if someone offers you one rusty penny for your shiny new box of whatever.....

Where is Grotsnik to blow this whole thing up?

Karl
MagickalMemories ( 832 )
Lord Logorrheic!
Posts: 16741
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:38 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO - USA

Post by MagickalMemories »

And according to the poll, about 1 in 3 people also find it rude or bad ettiqutte. (yeah i know it's not a representative sample, but it's what we've got) So when lowballing, realize that about a third of the time, the other guy's gonna find it rude. Nothing stopping anyone from doing it, of course.


And, just as an update, it's 14 to 19 right now... 42% (closer to HALF than a third) of voters in our non-scientific poll find it to be rude.

I have to admit, however, that I was a little surprised when the "no's" pulled into the lead and, more so, when they gained a huge lead. In past discussions, the opinion's been weighed heavily on the side of "yes."

Regardless, however, let it be a lesson to us all that each person has their own preferences.

"Life like stew."

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.
User avatar
starslayer ( 560 )
Millenium Trader
Posts: 2410
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:27 pm
Location: Pennsylvania,USA

Post by starslayer »

If you are going to get offended then don't post the words "Make me an offer".
Some people are going to put in a low bid,just to see if you are an idiot, or if you know what the figs are really worth.

Also consider the Batalion sets or Battle forces when you price your figs. For example, Ive seen someone posting Ogres for sale.
6 Bulls
4 Leadbelchers
4 Ironguts
20 Gnoblars
Listing retail for about $140 or some nonsense. This is the exact contents of the Battalion. They were selling for the bargain price of $110!! Wow, what a deal. NOT!
I can buy it in a store for $90 or get it from Chaos Orc for $67.50 + shipping ($6).
Then you have to consider condition.... assembled, etc.

In short, if you think you are going to get near retail for commonly available items, then you're nuts. Don't get angry when someone makes an offer YOU don't think is reasonable. It might be reasonable to them.
Post Reply

Return to “Have Questions? Need Help?”