Should "Deadbeats" include those who don't leave r

[Adunaphel]

[raises hand for being paranoid for no good reason about the deadbeat forum]

I still don't think not leaving a reference is a "drag through the mud" offence. Just annoying.

Karl

[peacemystic]

[raises hand for being paranoid for no good reason about the deadbeat forum]

I still don't think not leaving a reference is a "drag through the mud" offence. Just annoying.

Karl

Yes you name has been taken down,and expect a nighttime visit from an Inquisitor.

Having said I agree with putting people in the Deadbeat forum,i think the suggestion of the feedback not showing up until after you leave feedback is a better option .

Cheers

[insidius]

First, it was "you need proof" to post a bad trader refrence. Someone had to steal from you, or do something VERY VERY bad to get a public bashing.

Then, it was "If they back out", you can publicly bash them! They did not even have to rip you off, or anything, just bash away!

Now you want to make it "It was a great trade, but..." bash them if they do not leave feedback!


Does anyone else think this slippery slope you guys are on is wrong?

it reminded me of this poem...

In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up.

Now please do not think I am comparing trading plastic men with what happened in WW2, it is just that these words popped in my head when I read the OP.

If you get all hot and bothered over a GOOD trade because they did not leave feedback, don't deal with them again.

Just my opinion

-Anglacon

Absolutely.

I said this exact same thing a long time ago when this whole deadbeats forum came about, AND when it became acceptable to leave neg feedback for a backout.

When will it stop?

Is that the same slippery slope that so many people thought the "Deadbeat forum" was going down,like it was going to have a million posts and the world was coming to an end if it went into effect?
and what now 3 months after its implementation and we have all of 5 posts. i think your getting alittle carried away here

I don't think it's getting carried away. We're speaking up. Just like the poem he posted.

It's not a big deal now, but some of us have the foresight to see a few moves ahead and what this could lead to in the future.

If it weren't on the slippery slope we speak of, we wouldn't be having this conversation in this particular post, I suspect.

[Ironhide]

I don't think anyone has said it, but I'm pretty sure a lot of us has thought it.

Who here thinks this is about the people with lower ref counts not leaving feedback to the people with higher ref counts just so they (lower refs) can get their counts higher, while the high refs stay the same? Sounds stupid, yes. Average age on here? Probably 16. Maturity level of your "average" 16 year-old? Low.

[JohnHwangBT]

And that is why I prefer to hold Feedback until after I receive Feedback.

[brettness37]

And that is why I prefer to hold Feedback until after I receive Feedback.

And what happens when the person you're trading with is holding feedback until they receive it? This is the problem that came up before, if everyone holds back the ref then no one gets any feedback.

[JohnHwangBT]

In my actual experience, this is not an actual problem.

Process-wise, any trade that I do has clear trade rules that state that Feedback is to be exchanged after confirmation of receipt to close the trade.

If people agree to leave Feedback for each other as part of the trade, then things are much easier.

Worst case, I will amend the trade rules require traders with lower Feedback to leave Feedback first.

[peacemystic]

First, it was "you need proof" to post a bad trader refrence. Someone had to steal from you, or do something VERY VERY bad to get a public bashing.

Then, it was "If they back out", you can publicly bash them! They did not even have to rip you off, or anything, just bash away!

Now you want to make it "It was a great trade, but..." bash them if they do not leave feedback!


Does anyone else think this slippery slope you guys are on is wrong?

it reminded me of this poem...

In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up.

Now please do not think I am comparing trading plastic men with what happened in WW2, it is just that these words popped in my head when I read the OP.

If you get all hot and bothered over a GOOD trade because they did not leave feedback, don't deal with them again.

Just my opinion

-Anglacon

Absolutely.

I said this exact same thing a long time ago when this whole deadbeats forum came about, AND when it became acceptable to leave neg feedback for a backout.

When will it stop?

Is that the same slippery slope that so many people thought the "Deadbeat forum" was going down,like it was going to have a million posts and the world was coming to an end if it went into effect?
and what now 3 months after its implementation and we have all of 5 posts. i think your getting alittle carried away here

I don't think it's getting carried away. We're speaking up. Just like the poem he posted.

It's not a big deal now, but some of us have the foresight to see a few moves ahead and what this could lead to in the future.

If it weren't on the slippery slope we speak of, we wouldn't be having this conversation in this particular post, I suspect.

This Thread is a suggestion,nothing more,nothing less,and a suggestion that looks to be overwhelmingly rejected,there is no slippery slope,no one is suggesting a group of thugs will visit your house ect,as i said before we saw the same paranoia about the "Deadbeat" it didn't happen,and this suggestion is not going to happen either.

Cheers

[MagickalMemories]

This is NOT to call out any particular trader and is not cast as an insult or criticism. It's simply a statement of opinion.

I have a problem with the whole "holding feedback until the deal is done" theory. I don't find it to be fair.

Let's say you and I make a deal.

You have item XYZ and I have item ABC and we want to trade.
You have lower ref's, so you ship first.
I receive XYZ and find it to be exactly as described. I am happy with what I received from you.
At that point, you deserve a positive ref. You did exactly what you said you would.
When you receive my item in the condition stated and in a timely manner, you should do the same.

Same goes for purchases.
If I send you money, you should leave the ref. I should leave MY ref when I receive the items I bought.

That, of course, is simply opinion. Although I don't necessarily agree, I totally understand the reasons for "holding" refs.

Eric

[Massawyrm]

The problem here is of course that the refs ares something of a caste system and a way to pull yourself up out of it. While I am loathe to agree with another complainers forum, it is kind of nice in concept to have something to mention in the vein of "Hey, just wanted to hit you again before posting in the 'No Feedback' forum," which would no doubt solicit a response. It also has the benefit of being a preemptive reminder. "Crap, I should give feedback before that guy posts about me." Won't do anything for the grognards, but might make the noobs more aware.

In this thread alone I've seen plenty of my pet peeves about how people interact with the system. Not problems, mind you. Pet Peeves. I HATE that people with obscene trade ratings will ask those with modest but solid ones to ship first rather than simul-ship. I get annoyed that folks hold their REFs ransom until you give them their refs, even when you shipped first. I certainly UNDERSTAND it and can't REALLY hold it against them, but it leads guys like me to try and avoid trading with the upper echelon traders entirely unless we have to. Trading with someone closer to my trade rating usually means I have my minis in days rather than weeks.

But them's the breaks of a fair trade system like we have here - and frankly, while I like the idea of having an extra tool to combat the rampant douchebaggery of failing to leave feedback (of which I am many times a victim as well), it comes with the territory and this extra forum probably should be avoided.

And for the record - HarlequinZero...TOTALLY worth the shipping to Japan. Always trades in your favor. Check that brother out.

[vesrian]

A practical question to anyone who feels like answering, though particularly people in favour of this idea: If someone wanted to trade with you and you saw that they were reported as not leaving feedback, what would you do? Would you not trade with them? Would you trade but not leave feedback? Or what?

[ancientsociety]

A practical question to anyone who feels like answering, though particularly people in favour of this idea: If someone wanted to trade with you and you saw that they were reported as not leaving feedback, what would you do? Would you not trade with them? Would you trade but not leave feedback? Or what?

Personally, I wouldn't trade with them. They're not contributing to what sets Btown apart from other trading sites and stinks of laziness.

If a trader can't be bothered with taking the 2 minutes to leave a ref for another trader, how do I know they'll be considerate with packing, shipping, communication, promptness......

[MagickalMemories]

In this thread alone I've seen plenty of my pet peeves about how people interact with the system. Not problems, mind you. Pet Peeves. I HATE that people with obscene trade ratings will ask those with modest but solid ones to ship first rather than simul-ship. I get annoyed that folks hold their REFs ransom until you give them their refs, even when you shipped first. I certainly UNDERSTAND it and can't REALLY hold it against them, but it leads guys like me to try and avoid trading with the upper echelon traders entirely unless we have to. Trading with someone closer to my trade rating usually means I have my minis in days rather than weeks.

That I can recall, you and I have never traded.
To be honest, though, I think I'd probably ask that you ship first, if we did trade. Nothing against you... it just falls in with a loose formula I've created for myself.
More like a general set of loose rules, really.
You've been here a year and a half. That is very good.
In that time, you've amassed a 50 rating and 50-something posts (as of this post). While the rating isn't bad, the post count is low.
Now, I know that not EVERYONE can be the resident post whore. LOL I do look at "community presence" as part of my judgment factor, though.
Sure, I've seen your name around, and I SERIOUSLY doubt that you'd try anything shady... but it's not about YOU. it's about the general populace.

I've set my bar at triple digits. Anyone with 100 or higher (or almost 100, in some cases) is automatically trusted unless I've seen shady activities by them.
Anyone at 50 - 100 is trusted but watched. The right circumstances will lead me to trust or wait. typically, those circumstances are community involvement. The greater your contribution here, the greater your investment of time, the less likely you are to "get and go."

Again, this not to say YOU would do that... you just happen to be in that group.
I hope that came across right. It certainly wasn't meant, IN ANY WAY, as a slight to you.

A practical question to anyone who feels like answering, though particularly people in favour of this idea: If someone wanted to trade with you and you saw that they were reported as not leaving feedback, what would you do? Would you not trade with them? Would you trade but not leave feedback? Or what?

It would not affect my decision.
I would do everything as I normally would, following my "rules."
If he paid/sent first, he gets a ref when he pays or I receive his stuff.
I hope for the same in return.
If I don't get it, he gets a few reminder PM's.
If I see he's getting the PM's but not leaving the ref, he gets a last one welcoming him to my DNT list with the specific reason why he's there.
In that case, it's not JUST about not leaving the ref, but also about ignoring the PM requests. Bad trade practice.

Eric

[starslayer]

Im with MM. I'd simo-ship with anyone with over 100 rating with no negatives/neutrals.

Modest but solid ratings? So if you have a rating of 50, do you simo-ship to someone with a 26? Its pretty solid compared to a 50. Its all subjective.

If I have a good rapport with someone, they have a decent rating & they give a verifiable home phone #, I would probably simo-ship. It depends.

This is your opinion now. I wonder if it will change when YOUR rating is 200-300+.

My pet peeve is "buying is different then trading".

[porkuslime]

Im with MM. I'd simo-ship with anyone with over 100 rating with no negatives/neutrals.

Modest but solid ratings? So if you have a rating of 50, do you simo-ship to someone with a 26? Its pretty solid compared to a 50. Its all subjective.

If I have a good rapport with someone, they have a decent rating & they give a verifiable home phone #, I would probably simo-ship. It depends.

This is your opinion now. I wonder if it will change when YOUR rating is 200-300+.

My pet peeve is "buying is different then trading".

and I am with Starslayer and MM.. triple digits with no bad news = simulship..

and I frequently bend/break my rules.. depending on who and how negotiations go..

as for the buying and selling stuff.. my opinion is you are trading cash for product. I am not paying first, only to get mailed busted stuff. (for example)..

Bartertown is not a store.. if you want to be dealing with your "customers" like it was a retail buisness.. then talk to Lin about advertizing on this site.

-Porkuslime