This is seriously how we'd treat someone trying to help?

[Morlock-Bloodletter]

Ok, he broke the rules here by posting that about EldarFreak. Is anyone going to actually take a look & see if there is truth behind the warning?? If he is really stealing from people on other sites, that doesn't look good. Bartertown members should know.

FIRST let me preface this by saying that EldarFreak has done nothing wrong here. He hasn't broken any rules and as of yet no one has been able to provide any proof to the contrary other than a hunch that he may or may not be someone else. That causes replies such as Starslayers and automatically starts the tearing apart of the user in question. Until such time as the Admin deems necessary the conversations and research are kept quite private for just this reason. How would it be fair to any member of this site if we just started listing every user under 'suspicion' for NON Bartertown matters? We do take the PM's seriously but we are also a team of volunteers donating our time, skills, expertise and talents. In order to keep things fair to all we generally do not act on matters not involving Bartertown.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying we ignore it all together. We do take it under advisement and if need be we can ask the user to take care of the other outstanding issues FIRST before continuing their trades here, but we would NOT post this publically as everyone is granted a second chance. Yes yes [groan]yes even ticknor (he'll just get his second chance on another site, not this one). We act swiftly and decisively on Bartertown matters. When asked we provide information to other entities and sites on possible problems with forum jumpers. For example I personally have dealt with Warseer's Admin Nick on several issues including Ticknor and Steve Jones.

At this point I do not recall a case where the danger was so evident that we needed to take public action here for issues on another site. Much like we all say 'your eBay rating has no jurisdiction here' that goes both ways in that even the negatives don't.

The only argument I could present is that 9 out of the last 10 BTR posts were not correct.

Which means the 9 out of the last 10 user to post BTR's didn't read the rules (and have admitted to not doing so). However that particular piece of information has no relevance to this discussion as it is not known WHY they didn't and it does not MATTER why they didn't. Also, in those cases they've involved a Bartertown trade and we give 24-48 hours for the user to respond with the appropriate information.

If the majority of the recent posts in that forum have been wrong, maybe something more blatant to let people know that it is a very special forum on the board would help things out.

And do you have any idea how many revisions Linrandir has personally gone over, redone, recreated, reworded and regurgitated over and over until he was blue in the face trying to get the users of this forum to READ THEM!?!?!?!?! Ask him about that, I dare you [tad bit of sarcasm there].

The fact that Linrandir and the rest of us have gone over and over this time and time again with user after user is what has caused the severity and totality of the consequences that are now being applied across the board. No we will NOT change the labelled of the rules, again. We will NOT do anything other than enforce them. It is the responsibility of the person(s) using this site to have read the rules and adhere to them less they be subject to any and all consequences as defined by the rules themselves. Notice that sentence does not say "subject to any and all consequences after being reminded by the mods and admin."

It is certainly not negatively effecting me when people get suspended or banned for not reading the forum rules. I am not trying to give them an excuse either. I'm just throwing an idea out there. I love Bartertown. All the rules that are in place is a huge part of what makes it successful in my mind. I know that if someone has good feedback on here, I can trust it. That's huge! Thank you for a great site. If you don't think it would help to have more blatant warnings in the BTR forum, I'm definitely not going to be upset. I know the rules well enough. I even usually follow them all.
Thanks for listening.

And I personally understand what you are saying, however you are saying to me what I was saying to Linrandir a long time ago. "What if we make the labels on the rules bigger, more predominant..." My ears still ring a little bit.

[SteveBerenyi]

thing is lin asked us all publically what he should do about the BTR posting rules infractions and IIRC the majority of us VOTED for a suspension for violation of those rules.

.02 from me.

[CypherIsGod]

It is certainly not negatively effecting me when people get suspended or banned for not reading the forum rules. I am not trying to give them an excuse either. I'm just throwing an idea out there. I love Bartertown. All the rules that are in place is a huge part of what makes it successful in my mind. I know that if someone has good feedback on here, I can trust it. That's huge! Thank you for a great site. If you don't think it would help to have more blatant warnings in the BTR forum, I'm definitely not going to be upset. I know the rules well enough. I even usually follow them all.
Thanks for listening.

And I personally understand what you are saying, however you are saying to me what I was saying to Linrandir a long time ago. "What if we make the labels on the rules bigger, more predominant..." My ears still ring a little bit.

LOL... Nuff said.... I actually respect the stance on not "dumbing down" the site to cater to those that will not read. If only America was led by you and Lin, we'd be in a much better place.

[Lormax]

Had YOUR name been listed in that post would you still have that same opinion or would you have PM'd the Admin until you were blue in the face to have it removed? Thought so.

Funny enough, the only thread I can see in that forum that isn't the rules or the one that was moved is about myself. I haven't PMed any mods or admins to remove it. I also haven't PMed anyone to remove the negative reference. I took my lick and moved on.

Considering the thread in question broke several rules on this site, there are OTHER implications that tend to stick out. The biggest is "heresay". He said she said. That's NEVER been an acceptable form of proof here on Bartertown, EVER. Why should it be now? Because you say someone was trying to help?

I looked through the rules. Not sure which "several" rules he broke. There isn't one about hearsay. Again, unless we go by the RAW for the BTR Forum Rules, there isn't one saying that this isn't the place for that type of post.

Most of us that are replying to this post have been here for awhile now. We know the posted rules because we've either been hit by them, read them, or seen them enforced. We also know a lot of the unspoken rules as well...IE BTR Forum is for Bartertown transactions ONLY. I'd hate to see someone new get suspended/banned over the enforcement of that type of rule. Personally, if that was me posting that after being here for a week or two then being suspended for trying to help, I'd never return. Again, with GW's crackdown on bits suppliers and their own removal of bits ordering I welcome any and all new blood here.

[Rhaalidor]

Alrighty then. Why is it that nobody cares to look at the feedback rating given to EldarFreak?

Not one, but TWO self-posts. The feedback for EldarFreak (dynafitedraw@gmail.com):

http://www.bartertown.com/ref/index.php ... @gmail.com

Funny thing, he has only left feedback for 2 of the 9 feedbacks.

The feedback for: mdepino@yahoo.com who gave him two of his 9 positives:

http://www.bartertown.com/ref/index.php ... @yahoo.com

Another funny thing, no feedback left for either of his feedbacks.

Are there two people of the same name, in the same state, who trade with each other???????????

Funny thing, when I try to reference the post that started this, I am told that it doesn't exist. Damn, I must have been dreaming it.

OK people, you are going to punish someone for posting important information about a possible scammer, and let the scammer go unpunished? I have provided proof, ON THIS SITE, that the alleged scammer is guilty of at least one rule violation.

Where shall we go from here?

Where is BCI when you need him? Bartertown Watch...yeah, right.

[insidius]

Why couldn't this have been sent to admin?

[starslayer]

MORLOCK- I said absolutely nothing wrong. I simply asked if there was any truth behind the claims. I said nothing negative about the person in question. But as you said -its closed.

In a totally seperate issue- if he left references for himself he should be banned anyway.

[Linrandir]

Why not sent to admin? That's a good question, and certainly a great deal of hostility directed towards the admin from the user who made the information public. That's a good catch on your part, Rhaalidor, so why the angry?

Let me share a few interesting facts:
Bartertown has 2 people at Admin level, 5 at Moderator, and like another 4 or 5 Watchmen. We have over TWELVE THOUSAND USERS registered. That is approximately one "official" person to enforce the rules per thousand. There are TWO people with ban authority.
I don't have the time to dig deep on every accusation of fraud, rule violation, or other nonsense. Do recall, we're volunteers here. The fact that not only the staff but the user community are so amazingly active in fraud prevention and @$$hole busting helps make BT one of the best sites on the web.

The BTR forum's rules are strict for a reason. They have community support for being that strict. The guy who filed against EldarFREAK sent me his info AFTER he got busted for not following the rules. The majority of the drama and BS that arose during and after the MM/BCI incident did so because I made the error of trying to wiggle around my own rules because there were two senior traders involved. What I should have done, in retrospect, was lay the law down outright and been done with it.

Put another way: I don't care what someone's reasons are. You break the rules, you get punished. Action begets Consequence.

Incidentally, EldarFREAK has since PM'd me to inform me that he's leaving the site. I guess, given the givens, he knew he was about to be found out and decided to get while the getting was good. I'm going to put the post into the Misc. Information forum and leave his information visible. I have banned his account and nuked his ITL.

-----------------------------
Now, let's settle this BCI business once and for all so we can be clear on the matter.

BCI violated the multiple accounts rule when he used I-Ching 2.0 in the third person to support his argument with MM. He was verbally hostile and consistently sought confrontation instead of conversation. I'll be happy to put up a posting showing our PM "conversation" and his email to Adam following his banning where he demands my removal as site admin and offers himself in my stead.

Any questions?

[flagg07]

Yes, would you please post said conversation? It's my B-day and I need a good laugh.

[ancientsociety]

Yes, would you please post said conversation? It's my B-day and I need a good laugh.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!

[flagg07]

Thanks AS. Can we get said conversation even though it's no longer my B-day?

[Morlock-Bloodletter]

Starslayer-I did not say that you did post anything wrong. What I did place emphasis on is that once the BTR was posted, most people did ask or wonder if the allegations were true even though they probably shouldn't have been publically posted at that time. I was merely using your post, since you specifically asked if we were even going to look into it, as the example therein.

This was done to show why the information should've been posted to the Admin via. email or PM before being outed publically. This avoids issues where this could've been a case of mistaken identity.

Once that gets posted I know that there is a big reduction in the amount of trades one will get, which of course would not be fair if the person accused is actually innocent and had nothing to do with it.

That's why I used that example.
Sorry for the confusion Starslayer.

Funny thing, when I try to reference the post that started this, I am told that it doesn't exist. Damn, I must have been dreaming it.

OK people, you are going to punish someone for posting important information about a possible scammer, and let the scammer go unpunished? I have provided proof, ON THIS SITE, that the alleged scammer is guilty of at least one rule violation.

Where shall we go from here?

Where is BCI when you need him? Bartertown Watch...yeah, right.

I believe Linrandir pretty much said it all and while it was good and all that YOU caught it, that actually has NOTHING to do with what intially transpired so has no actual bearing on this discussion. You should've done as what was already suggested and PM'd the Admin first, but I guess we have no clue as to what we are doing since we all just started this site yesterday. It's a good thing that your superhero powers somehow beat us to it.
As for your apparent issue with how BCI was handled, I suggest counselling as that matter was resolved a while ago.

As for your comment on the Bartertown Watch, I suggest you remind yourself in your infinite wisdom to follow Rule # 6 and "Be Polite".

[Rhaalidor]

Why not sent to admin? That's a good question, and certainly a great deal of hostility directed towards the admin from the user who made the information public. That's a good catch on your part, Rhaalidor, so why the angry?

I'm sorry if I appeared angry. No hostility was intended towrd anyone. An, I apologize for my lack of tact in offering the information publicly, rather that contacting the Mods.

that actually has NOTHING to do with what intially transpired so has no actual bearing on this discussion.

Again, my apologies for not contacting you first. My post was intended to show that the former B-town member was guilty of at least one rule violation, albeit not the original transgression in the post that started this thing.

It's a good thing that your superhero powers somehow beat us to it. ".

Ouch.

As for your comment on the Bartertown Watch, I suggest you remind yourself in your infinite wisdom to follow Rule # 6 and "Be Polite".

My apologies to the Bartertown Watch.

[Linrandir]

Thanks AS. Can we get said conversation even though it's no longer my B-day?

Request so noted. I don't have the time to format it correctly tonight, but I should be good to have it up tomorrow night. IIRC there are 2 or 3 PMs and the email.


Rhaalidor: All good. Since my current job pretty much prohibits internet, it's a little harder for BT staff to coordinate on matters. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't an underlying issue I wasn't aware of.

[NuWishA]

S'alright? S'alright!