just a thought about GW

[leth]

I don't like paying more for things than anyone else but for the most part the price increases really don't bother me that much and here is why.

Take a look at the old dark eldar - Think a box of 20 was 30 bucks
Take a look at the new dark eldar - 10 for 25

Which would you rather have at the prices listed?

How about
Old ork truck vrs new orc truck, plastic super heavies, valkyries, dreadknights, soon to be fliers. When you factor in the quality level of the miniatures they are so much more fun to paint and work with. Codex's back in the day were 15 bucks, for a pamphlet. We now pay 30 for something about 5 times as thick. Much better in my mind. Honestly the only thing I have a problem with is white dwarf prices.

I know I am kind of all over the place and I understand people don't like to pay more than before but the way I see it is we are getting an improved product(eventually they will get to your army too) so it is going to cost more.

[kturock]

I don't like paying more for things than anyone else but for the most part the price increases really don't bother me that much and here is why.

Take a look at the old dark eldar - Think a box of 20 was 30 bucks
Take a look at the new dark eldar - 10 for 25

Which would you rather have at the prices listed?

How about
Old ork truck vrs new orc truck, plastic super heavies, valkyries, dreadknights, soon to be fliers. When you factor in the quality level of the miniatures they are so much more fun to paint and work with. Codex's back in the day were 15 bucks, for a pamphlet. We now pay 30 for something about 5 times as thick. Much better in my mind. Honestly the only thing I have a problem with is white dwarf prices.

I know I am kind of all over the place and I understand people don't like to pay more than before but the way I see it is we are getting an improved product(eventually they will get to your army too) so it is going to cost more.

The sculpting and casting are better than back when. Except when you consider that it was just GW doing horrible molds and sculpts. Pieces didn't line up and you HAD to spend hours modeling and converting just to get them to fix. That's excluding the models that had air bubbles or parts missing. Both of these were common occurances in GW kits; infantry or vehicles.

I can go into a hoppy shop that sells models and buy a very similair, if not exact same model I bought back in the 1970's when I was in jr high [middle school]. It has the same detail now as then, and is quality that GW has now mostly matched. The non-GW models have lots of pieces to build. The old rhinos where a joke, maybe 20 pieces in a kit. The new ones aren't a heck of alot more. You go buy a model of a APC from one of model companies, and it'll have twice as many parts and detail. [a rhino is basiclly an apc].

Same on the infantry. The GW models are finally starting to catch up to the WW2 models Tamiya made in 1975. Not bad, 35 years behind what was made in Japan.
The GW infantry have gotten thinner. The termies look anorexic. Yes the big metal termies were clunky, but the termies were supposed to be that. The first place that termies were seen/used/played was in Space Hulk. [GW's copy of Alien] Termies were supposed to be able to survive in a vacuum.

The only book I recall as pamphlet size was the Assassins book.
The 2nd Ed books had all of 1 army in one book. You didn't need 5 codexes with the same info and just different fluff. [space marines, ba, da, sw as an example]
3rd ed. was about the same size as current. Matter of fact you can still see some of the same pictures [artwork not photos. some of the covers are now shrunken and inside the book.] in the current editions of codexes and rules.

The rules have varied with the editons.
RT was generic, with how to use home-made models and created armies. Individual based rules.
2nd ed. was the creation of fluff and models that fit it. Individual based rules.
3rd ed. the extension of fluff and the changing of the rules from individuals to squads.
4th ed. is basiccly 3.5 ed. Corrections and aditions from playing the game. [A more finished product than 3rd ed.]
5th ed. is more like 3.75 ed. More corrections. A better balance between most armies. Still more finished than 4th ed.]

Not bad, after almost 25 years, GW has a mostly complete rulebook. Codexes and supplemental rules are still lagging behind, maybe never to be complete to the next edition of the rules.

Task Force Games, a comapny that started on a shoe-string, for a sci-fi property that was defunt and later closely guarded [Star Trek] released 3 sets of rules in under 10 years in the 1980's. The last set was a complete set of all rules for all races. It suggested [required] that you buy a 4" three-ring binder to hold all the rules.
The game still ahs followers and survived all of the different versions of ST, Paramount and the gaming rise & fall.

Companies can release complete and tested rules if they want.
GW has never cared enough about the players to want to do that. They just want to get another bite from the market-share pie.
Codexes are behind and catching up? slowly.
Models for released codexes are missing. [not released]

Yup, GW is better than ever.

White Dwarf is now catlog [or catalogue]. It's lost its standing as a magazine because it has too few words/articles to advertisements. [fact. USPS several years ago changed it from 2nd class postage {periodicals, magazines} to 3rd class {catalogs and flyers} That doesn't sound like much, but magazines get forwarded for free for 3 monthes when you move. Catalogs get thrown away.]
It's a info-mercial for GW.


So if you consider this a new and improved product, step in line and give GW more of your $. They'll take it and then change every thing again in 2 years. [again][and still not give a crap about what you think.]

[leth]

If you feel that way, why are you not buying the APC instead of the rhino? Seems like as far as you are considered everything is GW fing up and yet there must be some reason you keep coming back.

Yes I agree that they could potentially do better, but for me the cost vrs satisfaction is still in the green so I continue to buy them. If it were not in the green I would stop buying the models.

[kturock]

I guess you missed a post I started last year on the very similiar topic, before the current ed released.

I've stopped buying GW. I slipped and bought csm to have just 1 army, in case I want to play.
I got copies of the rules & codexes.
I did break down and buy the new DEldar, but have changed my mind and have sold most of it off.

I like the GW fluff. I'll keep buying the novels; but playing the game is out. There aren't many local players and my time to model & play has decreased dramaticly in the past years. The rule system still needs errata and arguing about meanings is now less 'fun'.

I'm still a gamer, but buying every GW product and model is no longer financailly feasable or desired.
I've had games that most of you never heard of; Chainsaw Warrior, Rogue Trooper, Block-Mania, Mega-Mania, The Judge Dredd Role Playing Game. All board games. All forgotten by GW.

If I want to build models again, it would depend on what type I felt like. The cool thing about GW in the begining was playing a game using models tanks and infantry.
Now it's not fun. The rules are buggy & questionable. Look at the discussions before & after DEldar was released. Look at the concerns about the GK being balanced.
The models are overpriced.

LIke I ended my last post. If you're happy paying for what your getting, then keep doing it.
I won't.

[leth]

Ahh so you no longer play.

Well let me say that you have to keep in mind one thing about the internet. It is the internet, honestly 95% of the problems that people see or come up with are either A. not likely to happen in game B. RAW vrs RAI for the blatant ones no one will play you cause you are a jerk so a lot of times those stay on the internet only. Trust me if half the things argued were in your local game shop they would not be anywhere nearly as stupid as they are online. Any system can be broken if you go out of your way to find it, with 10+ armies and combinations and special rules across the years yes there will be conflicts.

I will also agree that the tournament scene has gone to the wolves from back in the day. It has become so hyper competitive with builds that it is almost entering magic territory, however that is tournaments and you are not likely to encounter that in your local games anywhere near as much.

Don't take the extremes and apply it to the majority.

Also I realize that I have taken the intention of this thread in the wrong direction and for that I apologize, the overall internet negativity has started to wear down my patience where everyone finds something they don't like and talk about it as if everything they do like does not exist. The game sucks and is ruined because of x, completely forgetting about a-w and y,z. It is the consistent micro outlook versus the macro.