Iron Warriors and Cypher

[kturock]

I miss the fluff too. That's the entire reason I started buying G back in 1986/7?

I had a 1000 sons army, everythign was blue/gold. I bought it off ebay and sold the non-TZ units like oblits.

Reading thru the 4th ed. csm codex, it says the IW can filed 'stolen' vehicles, artillery and such. Thus the only SM/CSM with basilisks and the only CSM wiht vindicator. And also the only CSM with a 'tech-priest'.

Funny after 10k years, chaos forgets how to repair or heal. The sorcerors are kind of a chaplain. But no tech-priests or apotacaries.

Also wierd that the deamons codex has different stats for different types, but the CSM's only get the generic greater and lesser deamons. I guess their gods don't love them as much as th deamons.
and the chaos gods can have intricate, decade long plans, consuming the entire universe; but they can't schedule the trains to arrive on time to deliver the deamons in a deamon only army. half the armymust start in reserve, and then it's random on which half. I guess Hitler and talin were evil, but not chaotic. [both got their countries train system to run regularly.]

but its good to see horrors are 2 colors and 2 wound again. shoot a pink, it splits and becomes 2 blues.

.

[MagickalMemories]

Funny after 10k years, chaos forgets how to repair or heal.

Really?
Check the "Rhino" entry. : )


Eric

[EZ mac]

Funny after 10k years, chaos forgets how to repair or heal.

Really?
Check the "Rhino" entry. : )


Eric

Super repair for the win!

I will Always get at least 1rhino restarted because of tge whole same turn fix-a-chance

[Ironhide]

@op. The ironwarriors arnt that much different from tge last Ed. Tge main change is tge whole no basi option but u can take 3 vindis. I guess having 1less heavy makes a difference and weren't obliderators elites last Ed? But u can take 9 still... Oh and do NOT even try to take dreds, they are the super suckage!

Just take a bunch of CSMs with heavy weps and 2x daemon princes with wings and lash so u cam keep termies away while u shoot them.

Basies have longer range than vindis, and can fire indirectly. Not to mention they can take a HB or HF. That's a huge difference. If memory serves, Oblits in the last edition were were 0-1 choice, unless you played a Iron Warriors army. Then you could take as many as the FOC would allow.

[EZ mac]

@op. The ironwarriors arnt that much different from tge last Ed. Tge main change is tge whole no basi option but u can take 3 vindis. I guess having 1less heavy makes a difference and weren't obliderators elites last Ed? But u can take 9 still... Oh and do NOT even try to take dreds, they are the super suckage!

Just take a bunch of CSMs with heavy weps and 2x daemon princes with wings and lash so u cam keep termies away while u shoot them.

Basies have longer range than vindis, and can fire indirectly. Not to mention they can take a HB or HF. That's a huge difference. If memory serves, Oblits in the last edition were were 0-1 choice, unless you played a Iron Warriors army. Then you could take as many as the FOC would allow.

Yep it was o-1 unless u were iron warriors (which is why I said u could take 9 still...) but if u sealed the elite and fast attack choice u got an extra heavy choice which most people did, u could take 0-1 vindi and 0-1 basi in the 4 (max heavy choices) but now u can take up to 3 vindis but u share the 3heavy choices with obliderators.

Personally if I was going to do ironwarriors (if they still had 4heavy choices in the new 'dex) I'd do the 12x obliderators instead of a basi.

I mean everyone wants to see that right?

[Ironhide]

Actually, I never thought it was very fluffy for Iron Warriors to get those. Since they are supposed to be specialists in building fortifications, I thought they should have better cover saves or some kind of fortifications special rule. Something along those lines at least.

[JohnHwangBT]

According to the Fluff, IW are Siege and Fortification experts. Giving them Vindis makes sense.

In Index Astartes, I think IW have fortifications special rules.

[EZ mac]

Actually, I never thought it was very fluffy for Iron Warriors to get those. Since they are supposed to be specialists in building fortifications, I thought they should have better cover saves or some kind of fortifications special rule. Something along those lines at least.

Oh like the old imperial fists rules from index astarteds (sp?)? I forget the exact rules and don't have them but I remember it was similar to bolstered defenses and they had a moral boost while still in a special peice of terrain.

Personally I wish they had given special characters like sp marine ones with the rules they come with.

Black legion- abadon- reroll moral and something else like u can take another character
death guard- typhus- death guard are troops
khorn- kharn- berserkers are troops
1000sons- arahman- 1000 sons are troops
sleneesh- lucious (sp?)- noise marines are troops
red corsairs- heron- reroll moral checks and stuborn
word bearors- some name chaplain- fearless and his reroll for charges
iron warriors- warsmith- extra heavy support
night loards- night loard dude- extra fast attack
alpha legion- some alpha legion infiltrate dude- can outflank or infiltrate unitsfor x extra points per unit.

Cypher- can work for anyone has his own rules
that medical dude- just as he is now.

Really wish if they had kept the marked loard make it so that was the kind of unit (khorn, nurgle ect) that could be troops.


I'm a serrious fluff army builder( I don't make ultrasander or any of that) and keep my nurgle number in the 7s whenever I can. I really liked the old CSM codex because of that part in it and was a sad panda when it was changed so drasticaly.

[mrrshann618]

I'm a serrious fluff army builder( I don't make ultrasander or any of that)

Same here.
What they tried to do with the codex was to create a generic rules set that any of the legions could be made out of. Instead of imparting benefits and penalties they simply arranged things so that a "fluffy" army builder could do so without having to reference another part of the book.
Thus the reason why cult troops became troops instead of the elite slot they occupied
Again the reason why Vindicators became free reign.
The current edition of the codex allows the building of any legion without worrying about restrictions. The backfire was that all legions essentially became "vanilla" much in the same way the ultramarine/SM codex did. You can see that they did the same thing with the Eldar codex that came out, get rid of the craftworlds and allow any "craftworld" to be made from the generic list leaving it entirely up to the player to be fluffy or not.

[kturock]

Funny after 10k years, chaos forgets how to repair or heal.

Really?
Check the "Rhino" entry. : )


Eric

Super repair for the win!

I will Always get at least 1rhino restarted because of tge whole same turn fix-a-chance

but not for defilers, LR; and where are the land speeders? chaos doesn't know how to fly? that secret is hidden from the Keeper of Secrets?

in 2nd ed. csm & sm had the smae of everything. Now SM has more.

[kturock]

@op. The ironwarriors arnt that much different from tge last Ed. Tge main change is tge whole no basi option but u can take 3 vindis. I guess having 1less heavy makes a difference and weren't obliderators elites last Ed? But u can take 9 still... Oh and do NOT even try to take dreds, they are the super suckage!

Just take a bunch of CSMs with heavy weps and 2x daemon princes with wings and lash so u cam keep termies away while u shoot them.

Basies have longer range than vindis, and can fire indirectly. Not to mention they can take a HB or HF. That's a huge difference. If memory serves, Oblits in the last edition were were 0-1 choice, unless you played a Iron Warriors army. Then you could take as many as the FOC would allow.

Yep it was o-1 unless u were iron warriors (which is why I said u could take 9 still...) but if u sealed the elite and fast attack choice u got an extra heavy choice which most people did, u could take 0-1 vindi and 0-1 basi in the 4 (max heavy choices) but now u can take up to 3 vindis but u share the 3heavy choices with obliderators.

Personally if I was going to do ironwarriors (if they still had 4heavy choices in the new 'dex) I'd do the 12x obliderators instead of a basi.

I mean everyone wants to see that right?

that's the thing, thee is no fluff for forces in then new codex. No legions at all.

[kturock]

Actually, I never thought it was very fluffy for Iron Warriors to get those. Since they are supposed to be specialists in building fortifications, I thought they should have better cover saves or some kind of fortifications special rule. Something along those lines at least.

Better builders before the fall become better destroyers after. Siege specialists. Someone had the lay seige to the emperors palace.

[EZ mac]

Super repair for the win!

I will Always get at least 1rhino restarted because of tge whole same turn fix-a-chance

but not for defilers, LR; and where are the land speeders? chaos doesn't know how to fly? that secret is hidden from the Keeper of Secrets?

in 2nd ed. csm & sm had the smae of everything. Now SM has more.

what do u want? the warsmiths (techmarines) all died between 4th and 5th ed
yep and they lost their drop pods too...I mean they don't ever have them in any fluff, nope none at all...

They got wings! Daemon princes/ raptors... Just little teck. And how about razorbacks? I could see reaper autocannon 'backs. All theyed be is the right arm for the defiler.

just select stuff to selfimpose a fluff restriction..(numbers, BL novel story armies, old coldex restrictions, index astartes stories ect).

[Ironhide]

Actually, I never thought it was very fluffy for Iron Warriors to get those. Since they are supposed to be specialists in building fortifications, I thought they should have better cover saves or some kind of fortifications special rule. Something along those lines at least.

Better builders before the fall become better destroyers after. Siege specialists. Someone had the lay seige to the emperors palace.

Wasn't there a piece of fluff where the IW conquered a planet and fortified it, and basically challenged the Imp Fists to come and beat them; right after the failed attempt to conquer Terra? And then didn't they retreat into the Eye and build a huge fortress world? I've always thought of the IW as seige defenders, and the Imp Fists as seige attackers.

[JohnHwangBT]

Perturabo of the Iron Warriors was the mastermind behind the siege of the Emperor's Palace, delighting in the destruction of Dorn's obviously inferior (and ultimately failed) work. IW know siege, both as attackers and defenders.