How can GW do this???

MEDEVL · Post by **MEDEVL** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:06 pm

This is yet another reason to hate GW. I don't get how they think they can have full control over after market sales of their product in this day and age.
(From the BWB website News section)

26 March

Battlewagon Bits Mail Order
Recently we were met by the Vice President of Games Workshop USA. The result of that meeting and the discussions thereafter have led us here at Battlewagon Bits to revise the way we will sell GW product. While GW recognizes the service we do for the hobby, we have both decided that it would be best for us to move forward together with the hobby, and not against it. Legitimacy is key for any business to succeed and grow to full potential, and BWBits is no exception.

Over the next few weeks we will add the ability for you, our loyal customers, to phone, email, or fax in orders for GW items in both finished (boxed) and component (bits) form. You will also be able to purchase GW product from our soon to open BITS BUNKER storefront in Eastern Virginia USA. While you will also be able to order these items from us over the web in shopping cart form, we will not be able to provide that service much longer. We will however continue to sell all of our other items such as Vallejo Paints, Privateer Press Models, Trading Card Games, and many more new items on the internet. We will still sell GW items for the same discount as before, and still provide the same great service to you.

To help with the transitioning of bits sales to Mail Order, we will be publishing a Bits Catalog in the next week or so that will be available for download, or purchase.

We will also be adding "Bits Ninjas" to take orders over the phone, and process email/fax orders. If you live in Canada, France, Ireland, Italy, Spain or the UK, you can email us a request for a callback from a "Bits Ninja" to take your order over the phone for FREE.

This weekend we will be at Adepticon in Chicago, IL playing and promoting BWBits. After our return we will dive right into building a BIGGER and BETTER Battlewagon Bits. Change is in the air, the best is yet to come!

Thank you to all, for the continued support.

ancientsociety · Post by **ancientsociety** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:28 pm

Simple - laws in the US are lax to non-existent regarding the "regulation" of after-market sales by a manufacturer. None of the other GWs in other countries are able to do this because they have laws against it.

Hurray, laissez-faire Capitalism!

Anyway, I love how GW agreed that BWB was doing a service to their customers and their game system but that they couldn't do it any longer. Which is it, GW - are they helping your product or hurting it?

It seems GW is a sinking ship and, instead of supporting their customer base and independent distributors, they continue this foolish monopolizing of sales. It's a stupid practice with very little reward to show and just makes them alienate more customers.

( 108 ) · Post by **Linrandir** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:15 pm

That's a nice way of saying "GW threatened to cut us off if we didn't stop cutting into their business."

See, it's like this. Anyone who signs a contract with Games Workshop agrees to the terms in that contract. One of the terms basically says that GW regulates how you sell their product. how much of their stuff you keep in stock, and so forth.
Some of it makes sense - you don't put the GW stuff next to the nudie magazines and you keep the brand names together - no alphabetizing your store racks and putting GW blisters next to Privateer blisters.
It's standard practice.

However, if you don't/haven't signed a contract GW has absolutely no legal right to make any demands of you whatsoever, provided you are not violating existing federal, state, or local law by doing what you're doing.

For example, I could in theory buy store inventories and, assuming I had the proper business licenses, etc. sell said inventories online/in person and even post pictures of what I had in stock on my website. GW could not do anything to me because I didn't agree to give them that right. Sure, they could send letters and make noise, but any lawsuit would be laughed out of court (and you can be d**n sure I'd countersue for harassment and attorney's fees!).

Personally I think it's funny that GW is SO DESPERATE they are resorting to sending their executive-level employees out to small stores and trying to enforce their silly policies that everyone who isn't wearing an official GW-Reality-Filter can see is wrecking their business.

But that's just me.

MEDEVL · Post by **MEDEVL** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:48 pm

You guys make good points but I find it very interesting that if you go to Amazon.com and search for "Games Workshop" you get a bunch of hits at various discount levels, using a shopping cart system. It was my understanding that both of these are verboten under their new rules for online sales. It cracks me up how they'll go after some little guys but if they really had a leg to stand on they'd attack the big boys like Amazon and Ebay with the same fervor. They obviously know they'd probably lose a court case so they look the other way if they think you'll actually stand up to them. Could you really see the legal department at Amazon getting a Cease and Desist order from GW. They'd laugh so hard they pee themselves!!!

Datadep5 · Post by **Datadep5** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:28 pm

Maybe it's because it's not really Amazon offering it, but Amazon offering the service to offer it.

Something tells me that idea doesn't work.

I'll stick with GW doesn't want to try for them.

ancientsociety · Post by **ancientsociety** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:32 pm

MEDEVL wrote:You guys make good points but I find it very interesting that if you go to Amazon.com and search for "Games Workshop" you get a bunch of hits at various discount levels, using a shopping cart system. It was my understanding that both of these are verboten under their new rules for online sales. It cracks me up how they'll go after some little guys but if they really had a leg to stand on they'd attack the big boys like Amazon and Ebay with the same fervor. They obviously know they'd probably lose a court case so they look the other way if they think you'll actually stand up to them. Could you really see the legal department at Amazon getting a Cease and Desist order from GW. They'd laugh so hard they pee themselves!!!

It's the same thing with the RIAA and MPAA making suits in bulk against college students and grandparents of children who use filesharing. It's easier to go after people who have a high debt-to-income ratio and are desperate to settle, then say, someone who had the money to mount a good legal defense.

Forsaken Poptart · Post by **Forsaken Poptart** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:01 pm

GW seems to be saying, in my opinion - "Hm...that foot's already full of bullets. Good thing I've got another!"

( 832 ) · Post by **MagickalMemories** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:12 am

They can do it because we let them.

GW sucks.

I never buy directly from them and I, shamelessly, play in every free tourney I can that they have, in hopes of getting even more of their stuff for free directly from them.

I do whatever I can to give them as little of my money as possible.

Eric

Remember kids: If you buy directly from GW, the terrorists win!

Datadep5 · Post by **Datadep5** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:19 am

MagickalMemories wrote: Remember kids: If you buy directly from GW, the terrorists win!

Wow... that just made my night after an optics lab report. Thanks!!

If GW didn't charge 7 bucks for shipping I probably would have bought straight from them. Then gain the Game Preserve around here has a point system. 100 bucks means 10 bucks off your next purchase. Sadly I didn't find out about this site until I had most of my marine army.

Anyone think GW will ever realize what they are doing and fix it?

EldarFREAK · Post by **EldarFREAK** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:30 am

No, because GW has the monopoly. Think about it. You may never buy directly from them, but someone is (unless its counterfit). Seriously; who is going 2 quit this hobby b/c of something stupid that GW did?

Ok:

Countless hours of fun + People + Honing Art Skills > GW Being Jerks

Just buy the crap and STOP COMPLAINING. O yeah, and I can tell that this is going somewhere right? I love battlewagon bitz and all, but at least they are not being sued.

For any of you ever in the MTG community:

Rancored _ Elf let some spoiler information on new cards slip out. He was then sued $90,000.

Luckily, they are franchisings BWB. I think this is great, as they make more money and we get better quality stuff.

In short; QUIT BITCHING ABOUT IT AND BE HAPPY

( 832 ) · Post by **MagickalMemories** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:03 am

Or... you can quit bitching about people bitching and leave the thread where you, obviously, have no intent to say anything meaningful.

Of course, that's just MY observation.

You miss one VERY valid point.

Datadep5 buys a whirlwind directly from GW. GW gets 100% of the profits from that. Now, he deceided he doesn't need it, so I buy it from him. Regardless of whether I pay 4, 14 or 40 dollars for it, that is $40 of mine that is NOT going to support GW.

Another scenario...

I can't find anyone HERE to buy a whirlwind from. I can buy it from GW online and give the GW machine all of the profit, buy it from the local GW store and give the GW machine all of the profit, buy it from my local indy retailer and give GW only a PORTION of the profits or buy it at a discount from an online retailer, save money and only give GW the same portion of the profit as I did buying it locally.

I'll take "Obvious" for 50, Alex!

Circle gets the square!

NOT buying from them DOES matter. it gives them less profit.

That matters to me. It's the only thing that helps me deal with supporting their stiflingly horrible attitude.

Eric

EldarFREAK · Post by **EldarFREAK** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:17 am

What you are inferring is is that this hobby is so huge, that it can run itself.

you just said that "GW isnt getting the profits". But mathematically, they are loosing out on NOTHING. For every one of you people who refuses to buy something from GW, 12 little kids buy more.

GW has economies of scale. You, do not.

Gaijin18 · Post by **Gaijin18** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:33 am

I have wondered how long it would take before I get on here one morning to find a big post covering all the areas of the forum saying gw shut it down

( 108 ) · Post by **Linrandir** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:07 pm

I do so love these conversations...

@Eldarfreak:
Your use of the term monopoly is inaccurate. Miniature gaming is the industry, not Warhammer. Warhammer is a brand name/product line produced and owned by Games Workshop. Contrary to the horribly arrogant statement on their website, collecting, gaming, and painting is NOT the Games Workshop Hobby. It is the Tabletop Wargaming Hobby.
Since Warhammer is a product line owned by GW, it is impossible for them to have a monopoly on it like so many people think. It's their property and as they've shown, they can run it into the ground however they want to.

Many people do love the GAME, but they hate the COMPANY. This leads to the success of places like Bartertown, where Games Workshop is denied both their retail and wholesale profit when people pick up new armies, bits, or whatever.

Your statement regarding economy of scale is also somewhat inaccurate, more so for the fact that you don't support it with sales figures or anything. Take a look at GW's annual stock reports (publicly posted as GW is a publicly traded company). Go talk to your local game store and ask them about GW price increaes. GW USA's prices have increased on average once a year at no less than 15 - 20% for the last three years. Every so often they raise prices twice a year just because. This is because GW USA has posted serious losses for rather a while (IIRC at least the last three years). Their sales figures are bottoming out, and to keep their margins high they raise prices to compensate for sales losses.
If X + Y = Z, to maintain Z, Y must increase if the value of X decreases.

Furthermore, if GW really had such a massive economy of scale with little kiddies buying new stuff left and right...would they really need to spend so much time chasing down places like BWB or others? Would they need that ridiculous "Only Us on the Net" sales policy (which I may add is only enforceable if you sign a contract with them)?

The primary problem GW is facing (other than blaming independent stores for their shortcomings, as they did in the 2006 Annual Report) is that they are trying to be both product wholesaler and retailer. They are competing with the stores they are supplying, and that sad fact has taken its toll on everything GW-related.

@MM: Word, yo.

@Gaijin: Not to worry. If GW could have shut us down, they would have done so years ago. The fact that Bartertown moves more $$-worth of GW product than eBay on a daily basis probably rankles their hides...but I know of several GW employees who use Bartertown to save money (from the peanuts they get paid), firstly, and secondly, Bartertown is very nicely protected by American law.
We're here to stay.

EldarFREAK · Post by **EldarFREAK** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:45 pm

When you first started 40k gaming- where did you get your stuff?

I had to buy it straight from GW, and now 4 years down the road here I am.

Sure, GW may lose $50 from you then BUT they will get $200 from kids who dont know about this site.