Am I a monster? Measurement Rules!- Guys some help?

[Asif Chaudhry]

Asif, I would agree that measuring when something is clearly in or out of range is shenanigans, but it's legal by the rules. Would I do it in a friendly game, or even a tourney game? No. Ardboyz? Absolutely! It's cheese, but it's legal cheese. You can't necessarily fault someone for doing it. Then again, if they're wipping out the ol' tape measure to check range when they're firing a lascannon at a target eighteen inches away, and they leave the tape measure up there for more than about a second, it's obvious they're not checking range and you could definitely call them on it.

Oh, I know reegsk. I wasn't checking the legality - I know it's 100% legal. And while I *could* fault them on it , I know they are entitled to their measurement.

I was just wondering when it would be "totally fine" according to Brian - he said he could see several situations. I was just wondering what those situations were?

For me, clear-cut in or out of range is simply that - clear-cut. If someone says "I need to measure this range", everyone around here automatically starts looking for the questionable weapon range shots/charge ranges that this person might be trying to get a better feel for, instead of the one he declared.

[don_mondo]

Gotta go with the majority on this one. Will add this though, don't forget about guess range/indirect fire weapons. If memory serves, their targets must be chosen before any measuring.

Not since 3rd ed..............

[Brian Adair]

Asif,

I guess what I was suggesting is- at what range do you call "eyeballing" quits? If I have a 36" gun, can I guess to 24" inches or 32"? If someone measures a distance at 24" and are shooting a 36" gun, I don't really care one way or another. If it is a 12" meltagun and the distance is clearly over 3 feet, yes I would kind of take offense (but again, I still wouldn't say anything as I think the outcome in game terms would be minimal). The one thing that has to be universally remembered is that not all peoples perspectives are the same, no matter how "common sense" we think something is. Perhaps some people can judge distances to the single inch, others maybe 6 or 12, I am not going to make a fuss because a guy isn't sure how far his range is- especially when it is clear in the rules that you can measure any distance you want. I think the instance that can cause more of an impact is the measuring to your own units, like in question 3. Now you can ensure all your units get a cover save with a venomthrope or mech boy and move as far as possible- or all your units can be fearless one turn, then the next when you don't want them to be, move them out. How about this, measuring between all my tanks so I can ensure that Eldrad can cast a fortune on two tank and be in range to guide a third- I think this area is much more abuseable than being a bit more accurate with a unit shooting. I think the measuring thing is more clearly a mark of poor sportsmanship while the second instance is a more subtle infraction that has a larger impact on the game. However, as I stated, as long as both players are on the same page- who cares, your guants get cover saves, my orks do as well.

Thanks for your continued input guys.

[wookieegunner]

If you're concerned about people measuring long distance weapons to get a feel for shorter ones, when the person calls the long distance shot and then grabs the tape measure just say "That one is in range you don't need to measure." and see how they react. Honestly, a lot of people just get into a pattern of call shot, measure, roll that they will measure a gun more out of habit than if they need it.

[MagickalMemories]

Personally, I don't care if you measure your range or not, provided you're MEASURING YOUR RANGE.

I'll explain.
If you're measuring a meltagun, then set your measure for 12" and hold the "12" at the edge of your base. Either you're out or in.
You do NOT measure a melta by putting the end of your tape on your target and extending your tape to the melta to get a complete range.
So, measuring "within range" is fine with me. Measuring DISTANCE is not.
If you have a Razorback about a half table distance away from me (24") and you measure your range as described above, I'm okay with it... even if there's a melta ABOUT half way.
Measuring FROM the target, though... same thing.

It's perfectly acceptable to measure range (which is not the same as measuring distance), so I don't understand what all the fuss is about.
I don't call 'shenanigans" on anything that is within the scope of the rules.


Eric

[Brian Adair]

Eric,

You said it alot better than I did, I agree 100%.

[Paintbrushturkey]

what ironhide said...

[Norseman]

MM Wrote:
What WOULD have been fair, however, would be to move all but ONE. Then, measure the distance from the second to last one to the venomthrope. That guy's 8" from the 'Thrope? no prob. He knows he needs this last guy to be about 2" from the previous one, so taht he makes the "bubble."

I actually do not think this is legal either. I do not believe you are aloud to check distances from a second unit. I think you have tyo judge the distance, and if you move outside of the bubble distance you are S.O.L.

MM Wrote:
I'll explain.
If you're measuring a meltagun, then set your measure for 12" and hold the "12" at the edge of your base. Either you're out or in.
You do NOT measure a melta by putting the end of your tape on your target and extending your tape to the melta to get a complete range.
So, measuring "within range" is fine with me. Measuring DISTANCE is not.
If you have a Razorback about a half table distance away from me (24") and you measure your range as described above, I'm okay with it... even if there's a melta ABOUT half way.
Measuring FROM the target, though... same thing.

This however is spot on. It is even more important in WFB.

[MagickalMemories]

I actually do not think this is legal either. I do not believe you are aloud to check distances from a second unit. I think you have tyo judge the distance, and if you move outside of the bubble distance you are S.O.L.

Nope. It's absolutely within the scope of the rules.
It's even okay to measure it after moving that last model... but against the rules to move the model back a little bit if you're out.


Eric

[Brian Adair]

Eric,

Can you back that up with a rules quote and page number? I have read page 3, 5 and 11 and find nowhere that it claims you can measure to your own units.

Brian

[MagickalMemories]

I cannot.
I don't have any rulebooks here.

Eric

[Brian Adair]

Shame on you, you don't carry your Warhammer rules books around with you everywhere *gasp*- does anyone know to whom we report Eric?

[MagickalMemories]

Shame on you, you don't carry your Warhammer rules books around with you everywhere *gasp*- does anyone know to whom we report Eric?

Call my supervisor.
His name's Michael Rotch.
He answers to Mike, though.



Eric

[Brian Adair]

Eric,

All kidding aside, if you get a chance tonight to look through the rules and find something to support your claim, I really would like to see it- on page three they define the times to measure and I don't think that is included. Either way, whether I am right or wrong I would like to know.

Thanks,
Brian

[EVIL INC]

1. I am honestly not sure.
2. Most definitely. It is perfectly legal and an aspect of tactics that is an important aspect of the game itself. Look at guess range weapons for example. It is a part of the game that the designers purposely put in for that purpose in order to make you think more. Of course doing it for each and every single shot can be annoying.
3. You move the unit. Easy to see and make sure a model is within 6 inches, its just a matter of spacing. No need to even measure unless your near enough to the 6 inch mark to not be sure but like I said, it is easy to make sure without measuring.
Moving and then measuring the way he did is not good.