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Emanuel and I had an agreement to trade my painted cygnar army for his Skorne army at a roughly 35% increase in value. He subsequently told me he had to exclude two models valuing $50 because he could trade them for something else on barter town. After much contemplation we both agreed to make the trade despite the two models. We communicated on phone for several minutes until his phone went dead. He texted back that his "minutes" ran out. After we agreed via e-mail on the trade he asked me if it would be alright to trade on monday because that was pay day. I was hoping to make the swap sooner and offered various trade options so that we could make the trade that weekend but he never got back. Several days ago I wrote him an e-mail asking for further communication regarding the trade. It's currently monday and he has yet to get back to me. I can understand that trading can sometimes can be tricky but given the multiple things that have happened above i am concerned.

Given current circumstances i feel that he is DB/BO until further notice.

Sincerely, Snarcbite

Sorry, his user name is actually emanuelclass

I need you to post all pm's/email's with header's into here per bartertown rules or we have to remove your thread.

Dave

You DO need PMs and/or emails, but if your description of the trade negotiations is accurate, then I don't think you have a valid backout. You said you two had agreed to trade, but he couldn't ship as fast as you would have liked. Because of that snag you then went back to offering various trade options that your partner never agreed to in an attempt to get him to ship faster. The problem here is that when you attempted to change the deal after it had been agreed to you were essentially restarting negotiations. When a case like this occurs you can't declare the other guy a backout since you attempted to alter the original agreement.

Email 1
Hey, i noticed your add. I have a nicely painted cygnar army with shades and highlights scheme is base coat yellow with magestic blue abd gold accents. Almost all models based and flocked. Given the paint job i was hoping to make a trade at a 50% markup. You interested in trading your Skorn?

Have:
E Haley
E Stryker
J Kraye
Strangeways
Squire
Kathrine laddermore
E Eiryss
Gunmages with UA
Stormblades with UA
Stormblades (second set)
Stormlances (3)
Black 13th
Ol, Roudy
Defender
Stormclad

Cheers, Nick

Email 2
i dont know about 50% mark up. i paint all of my own armies but as a painter i understand valuing painted modles over new or primed modles. i will give you a great deal but not at 50% mark up. all of the skorn i have for trade are primed grey and all the beast have been gap filled. do you have any pictures. the modles i am intrested in are
Kathrine laddermore
E Eiryss
Gunmages with UA
Black 13th
Stormblades with UA
Defender
Stormclad

Email 3
I'm sure we could work something out. I'll send you the pics as soon as I get home. I had them on e-bay not too long ago (if you go to ebay and type in past listings and search Cygnar Army you should be able to find them). Also, given that they are all the same color scheme I was hoping to trade all to the same buyer. Would you be ok with this?

Email4
i could possibly trade for the whole army. i also have the skorn mk2 token set and the book i can trhow in with the trade.

Cheers, nick

Email5
what kind of trade did you have in mind

Email6
So i did the numbers via FRP games.com at the discounted price for both armies

The cygar army is $378
The Skorn Army is $530

This is about a 35% markup value. So my proposal is we trade army for army How do you feel about this?

Email7
give me a little time to consider it once i have seen the pictures of the paint jobs. i would be getting doubles of alot of things i cant use two of such as old rowdy, squire the casters ect. i also already have one full unit of storm blades and only need a second one im not sure how often i would ever need three units. but so far this is one of the best offers with several things i do need. ill let you know once i have seen the pictures

Email8
Did you see all the pics on ebay? Also if you have then please let me know which other pics youd like

Email9-14
Going back and forth about how to look at pics online but i agreed to send pics via email

Email15
Pics were sent

Email16
Ok cool very interesting theam ill trade army for army but I need to exclude either the rinodon OR the titan sentry and tyrant vorkesh some one is giving me a nib ogrun assalt corps for it. Which would you prefer the rinodon or the sentry?

Email17
I understand you can get a good trade. The tyrant and the rinodon/titan are collectively $50. One solution is to PayPal me the difference but i feel that the trade ASIS is more than fair. Please feel free to call me so that we can discuss this further if necessary (number given)

-Nick

Email18
here is the thing, you are trading me stuff i want. but your also trading me things i cant use. and your paint jobs are ok. but all of mine are painted black and blue and i like to think im a good painter. chances are i would end up repainting the modles any ways and im not sure you want that. and i dont think they are worth the mark up you are asking. unless your willing to compamise on the trade then we can call it quits.

Email19
Im willing to work something out. Would tgus guy selling the ogrun corps be willing to accept cash? Maybe we could 3 way trade. What do you think?

Nick

Btw i am located in ohio, you?

Email20
im in colorado and i used to live in ohio. i lived in youngstown, clevland, coloumbus, kent, warren, lol i got around. im not sure he may

Email21
Im in akron. Give me a call, im off work. We'll hash this out (number given)

Nick

Email22
Thanx for the text. Lets make the trade then. Does usps with tracking # sound ok?

Email23
My address is (address given)

Ill take the rhinodon

-nick

Email24
Yea thats fine ill be using usps it is much closer I will send them out first thing tommrow morning. I'm off tommrow.

Email25
What is your address?
-Nick

Email26
Name and address of his given to me

Email27
Wait lets hold off on the trade until monday. I don't get paid until then.

Email28
It should'nt be more than $20 dollars. I can always send you cash via pay pal for the tyrant and titan so you can afford shipping as well. If you,re in agreement to ship tomorrow, i can ship today. Let me know what you decide.

-Nick

Email29
Actually i have another solution. If you included the rhinodon and tyrant i could pay for shipping via ups. What you would need to do is get the box weighed and tell me what the weight is. I would then pay for a shipping label and send it to you via e-mail. You would then call 1800 PICK UPS and they would come to your house and pick up the package from your door step. This way you can save some cash on the shipping. What do you think?

Cheers, Nick

Email30
Hey, i havent heard from you in a while. Where are we at? did you get cold feet?

-Nick

So in response as you can see the original deal was not altered. He was trying to trade the tyrant and titan to someone else but he told me on the phone that it had been many days and he hadn't heard from the fellow that he was wanting to make the trade with. So with that in light my stance was that if he included the titan and tyrant i would cover shipping in exchange. As you can see there were 30 emails sent back and forth over 2 days and yet i haven't heard from him for 3 days after asking for clarification as to where we stand. Mind you, he was wanting to trade today and it is already 8:00 with no response.

Please give me your candid opinion; if you feel that i am in the wrong for making this post please advise but given circumstances i was inclined to list a DB/BO post.

Ok, the emails are a little better for sorting things out. As of email #26 I think the deal was set. You had both agreed and exchanged addresses. In message 27 he did indeed try to change terms after having already agreed. So, yea, I think you're in the right here. However, seeing as he didn't really attempt to string you along or cheat you I would leave it at this if I was in your shoes. I wouldn't feel justified leaving a negative ref. On the other hand, it is your choice.

Also, you did post this a little quickly. Usually people take a bit more time to try and work things out. Again, it is your choice, but you might want to give your partner a little more time to fix things in the future

HarlequinZero wrote:Also, you did post this a little quickly. Usually people take a bit more time to try and work things out. Again, it is your choice, but you might want to give your partner a little more time to fix things in the future

Agreed. You have 30 days from the date of your last contact to post a Backout Report. The more time you give it the more likely it is to work itself out. 3 days is a good bit to soon in my opinion. Real life happens some times, and that can (and should) take precedence over trading for what is essentially "silly little toys".

Edited Title to reflect proper user name.

Great thank you guys for the feed back. I would like to give Emanuel the benefit of the doubt; therefor I will withhold a negative evaluation for now but if i don't hear from him over the next several weeks then I might change my mind...

Sincerely, Nick

I thought it might be relevant to add my experience with emanuelclass.

I was in the middle of a trade with him when his account got banned. He had sent his part of the deal and everything arrived in a satisfactory condition. I wanted to post one last question to him before I sent my stuff and saw that his account was banned. I asked some questions of the admins and got his personal email so that I could continue to communicate with him. I emailed him the custom's form number that the post office gave me. He responded and thanked me for the info.

My experiences don't change what the poster has dealt with but I felt obligated to share my positive experience with him.

J--

james4177 wrote:I thought it might be relevant to add my experience with emanuelclass.

I was in the middle of a trade with him when his account got banned. He had sent his part of the deal and everything arrived in a satisfactory condition. I wanted to post one last question to him before I sent my stuff and saw that his account was banned. I asked some questions of the admins and got his personal email so that I could continue to communicate with him. I emailed him the custom's form number that the post office gave me. He responded and thanked me for the info.

My experiences don't change what the poster has dealt with but I felt obligated to share my positive experience with him.

J--

According to his profile page here: memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=47157 he has not been banned. In fact, it shows that he was online here as recently as Monday, 4/18.

All I know is that when I looked at his listing at the time I wanted to ask him another question his profile picture showed some kind of monkey image and underneath was the description that he had been banned. I posted asking for advice on how to proceed viewtopic.php?f=1&t=135602 and got a PM from the admins offering me his email so I could contact him.

Whether he is currently banned I don't know... just sharing my favorable experience with him as a trader.

J--

James--I can't help but think that you might be confused here...like with Direavenger....

Yes, I think you are right. I have confused two traders.

My apologies for muddying the waters.

J--

FYI. It's several weeks past the trade day and still no response. Emanuelclass officially a DB/BO.