BACKOUT - ASHBY - PATENTLY DISHONEST AS WELL

[templars]

Agreed to sell me some Normans for $19, then backed out with the excuse it "was a communication issue", which could not be further from the truth.

Here is one email from him:

Re: Normans

Sent: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:22 pm
by ashby
The other figures are at the very least Dark Ages. Have a bunch of peasants and such of the same era. Not Foundry though, but of very good quality and in white primer. As for pics, I merely reused the pic the person who gave me those in payment used. I'm a Horse and Musket guy with NO interest in this period, but unpainted lead is better than no payment at all.
I'll pack up the 22 and get them on their way to you tomorrow if you like. Payment and figs and pass in the mail.
Thanks

and here is the other after he sold them to someone else - judge from this yourself if you want to deal with this guy.

Re: Normans

Sent: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:50 am
by ashby
Craig,
I think we had some communication problems. The figures are sold pending payment. I feel bad about that and would gladly send you all the dark Age extras for postage. Somewhere around 50 figures and about half dozen mounted.
Let me know.

There are others I could add where we go back and forth about including an extra figure here and there. Fact is, if he had gotten a BETTER OFFER, then be honest enough to say so and ask if I mind him backing out - he didn't do that. He lied instead and called it "miscommunication". THAT, I have a problem with as I asked him several times after the first email where to send payment. Here is an example of that.

Re: Normans

Sent: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:50 am
by templars
Have you mailed these? How do you want me to send you payment?

Thanks man - look forward to getting these from you and getting you paid.

On second thought, I wouldnt mind those other guys if you still have them (other 13), if you think they would scale well with the Foundry.

Thanks and let me know - im on the road in California for another few days and net ability isn't always there and ive yet to I phone it thus far.

craig

Bottom line, avoid this guy like the plague.

[templars]

Oh and those figures he offered to send to me - I accepted given the circumstances, and of course a month later, they were never sent nor do I think he ever intended to send them. I have sent him emails asking about it - and thanking him - to which he ignored me completely.

Deal with him at your own peril.

[porkuslime]

You say you have PMs and emails.. per the rules of this forum, you MUST post a complete PM string about your dealings..else you will have some consquences per BT Rules of Backout posting.

[porkuslime]

Templars - you now have 24 hours to post PMs or take a short vacation from the site for not following site rules. I mentioned this on Tuesday the 13th.

viewtopic.php?f=45&t=62717

-Porkuslime

[templars]

Really, so you are going to go out your way to punish me for trying to help the community. I don't appreciate the threats - needless really. Try not to be such a tough guy, and actually work to punish people who are dishonest rather than punish those honest people with good ratings that report them.

And excuse me, I do not care that you mentioned this a couple of days ago. I do not live at this site nor do I check every posting I have made in the event someone might have responded. You might insert that little fact into your calculations.

[templars]

Previous PM in historyNext PM in history

Re: Normans

Sent: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:50 am
From: ashby(8)
To: templars
Craig,
I think we had some communication problems. The figures are sold pending payment. I feel bad about that and would gladly send you all the dark Age extras for postage. Somewhere around 50 figures and about half dozen mounted.
Let me know.

ashby (8)
New Trader

Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:40 pm

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Re: Normans

Sent: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:33 pm
by templars
Wow, I most certainly articulated repeatedly I wanted those Normans, oh well. I also communicated often enough I was merely interested in the others if I knew what they were.

Well, I don't suppose you could explain the circumstances to the other guy who came in on this after?

Craig

Re: Normans

Sent: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:50 am
by ashby
Craig,
I think we had some communication problems. The figures are sold pending payment. I feel bad about that and would gladly send you all the dark Age extras for postage. Somewhere around 50 figures and about half dozen mounted.
Let me know.

Re: Normans

Sent: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:58 am
by templars
Saw you read the last email but didn't respond - is this deal still on? Working in California and made some time here to check emails and make some pay pal payments.

Let me know - would really like those Normans

Thanks
Craig

Re: Normans

Sent: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:50 am
by templars
Have you mailed these? How do you want me to send you payment?

Thanks man - look forward to getting these from you and getting you paid.

On second thought, I wouldnt mind those other guys if you still have them (other 13), if you think they would scale well with the Foundry.

Thanks and let me know - im on the road in California for another few days and net ability isn't always there and ive yet to I phone it thus far.

craig

Re: Normans

Sent: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:40 am
by templars
Craig???

Do you use Pay Pal or want a money order? When do you see yourself getting them out to me? I can pay you tomorrow or no latter than Wed on Pay pal or send you a money order.

craig

Re: Normans

Sent: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:32 pm
by ashby
Craig,

Re: Normans

Sent: Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:52 pm
by templars
Horse and Musket guy here too - I have some Old glory ren laying around somewhere.
Sounds good. Talk later

Re: Normans

Sent: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:22 pm
by ashby
The other figures are at the very least Dark Ages. Have a bunch of peasants and such of the same era. Not Foundry though, but of very good quality and in white primer. As for pics, I merely reused the pic the person who gave me those in payment used. I'm a Horse and Musket guy with NO interest in this period, but unpainted lead is better than no payment at all.
I'll pack up the 22 and get them on their way to you tomorrow if you like. Payment and figs and pass in the mail.
Thanks

Normans

Sent: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:53 am
by templars
In the absence of any other photos or pics you can send to templars8310@yahoo.com, because I might have been interested in getting them all, I'll take the 22 Normans for 18. If I knew what the 13 figures were besides the 3 crossbow, I'd go 25 for it all. Hell, if they are dark ages at the very least, and you want to throw any other Norman bits in, I'll gladly shoot you a money order or go Pay Pal if you do accept that. That wouldn't be till Monday though.

[porkuslime]

Really, so you are going to go out your way to punish me for trying to help the community. I don't appreciate the threats - needless really. Try not to be such a tough guy, and actually work to punish people who are dishonest rather than punish those honest people with good ratings that report them.

And excuse me, I do not care that you mentioned this a couple of days ago. I do not live at this site nor do I check every posting I have made in the event someone might have responded. You might insert that little fact into your calculations.

Following site rules is not important to you? This is not about "punishing you for trying to help the community", this is about your disregard for the posting rules of this section of the site.

Those were not threats, those were stated consequences to rules violations.. also spelled out in the BT rules.. which I suspect you need to review.

Talking rudely to site staff is also against the rules too, by the way.

-Porkuslime

[MagickalMemories]

Really, so you are going to go out your way to punish me for trying to help the community. I don't appreciate the threats - needless really. Try not to be such a tough guy, and actually work to punish people who are dishonest rather than punish those honest people with good ratings that report them.

And excuse me, I do not care that you mentioned this a couple of days ago. I do not live at this site nor do I check every posting I have made in the event someone might have responded. You might insert that little fact into your calculations.

Please, take a moment to follow this link:
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=45470

When you get there, please take note of Rule # 7 - Specifically, the part that begins with the words, "doubly so."

If you had taken the time to educate yourself on site rules and, especially, the rules for posting backouts, you'd have known what rules you violated. Just because you feel wronged -and don't think we don't sympathize with that feeling- you don't get to ignore site rules. They are there for a reason.
All of our rules have been carefully chosen, and each one exists for a specific purpose. They were not created haphazardly and they are not merely the whims of a group of staff members who want to arbitrarily create strictures that they can enforce on the masses.

We work our asses off -for free, I might add- to make this place run smoothly and properly for traders, much like yourself, who pay absolutely nothing to visit the site and take advantage of the trade oriented atmosphere. You've been a member long enough that you should understand that already.
That is why we have the rules we do and why you should not treat any staff member like they're some piece of sh*t or your own personal whipping dog. In the future, choose your words carefully when speaking with other site member and, as the rule states, doubly so when directed at a Staff member who notifies you of a rule violation.

Thank you for your time.

Eric
(Also responded via PM)

[MagickalMemories]

Now, to address the specifics of the complaint.

I put your messages in chronological order and formatted them in a more appropriate manner. Really, if you're going to make a report, you might as well do it the right way and make it legible.

Normans

Sent: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:53 am
by templars
In the absence of any other photos or pics you can send to templars8310@yahoo.com, because I might have been interested in getting them all, I'll take the 22 Normans for 18. If I knew what the 13 figures were besides the 3 crossbow, I'd go 25 for it all. Hell, if they are dark ages at the very least, and you want to throw any other Norman bits in, I'll gladly shoot you a money order or go Pay Pal if you do accept that. That wouldn't be till Monday though.

Is this the first message in your PM history? I mean, I noticed the lack of a "re:," but it almost looks like something was said before this to cause your response.

Re: Normans

Sent: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:22 pm
by ashby
The other figures are at the very least Dark Ages. Have a bunch of peasants and such of the same era. Not Foundry though, but of very good quality and in white primer. As for pics, I merely reused the pic the person who gave me those in payment used. I'm a Horse and Musket guy with NO interest in this period, but unpainted lead is better than no payment at all.
I'll pack up the 22 and get them on their way to you tomorrow if you like. Payment and figs and pass in the mail.
Thanks

Here, he clearly displays an interest in your offer, but does not mention which offer he's referring to (the 18 or the 25).

Re: Normans

Sent: Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:52 pm
by templars
Horse and Musket guy here too - I have some Old glory ren laying around somewhere.
Sounds good. Talk later

Conversation. I've got nothing to ask about here.

Re: Normans

Sent: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:32 pm
by ashby
Craig,

This looks as if you missed something. There is no message here. What is missing?

Re: Normans

Sent: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:40 am
by templars
Craig???

Do you use Pay Pal or want a money order? When do you see yourself getting them out to me? I can pay you tomorrow or no latter than Wed on Pay pal or send you a money order.

craig

Clearly, the deal's not on yet. You still haven't agreed on how payment will be made or when he'll ship (unless the previous -missing- PM has some important info).

Re: Normans

Sent: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:50 am
by templars
Have you mailed these? How do you want me to send you payment?

Thanks man - look forward to getting these from you and getting you paid.

On second thought, I wouldnt mind those other guys if you still have them (other 13), if you think they would scale well with the Foundry.

Thanks and let me know - im on the road in California for another few days and net ability isn't always there and ive yet to I phone it thus far.

craig

You ask if he's mailed, but I don't see where you've given him your address. Was that left out, or...?
Also, you still don't seem to have a solid deal, since you're still asking about the rest of the models.

Re: Normans

Sent: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:58 am
by templars
Saw you read the last email but didn't respond - is this deal still on? Working in California and made some time here to check emails and make some pay pal payments.

Let me know - would really like those Normans

Thanks
Craig

Just an inquiry. I've got nothing to add. I still don't see an agreement or address exchange yet.

Re: Normans

Sent: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:50 am
by ashby
Craig,
I think we had some communication problems. The figures are sold pending payment. I feel bad about that and would gladly send you all the dark Age extras for postage. Somewhere around 50 figures and about half dozen mounted.
Let me know.

He doesn't say WHAT communication problems... but I see them, too.
He also seems to be offering some models for free as a kindness.

Re: Normans

Sent: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:33 pm
by templars
Wow, I most certainly articulated repeatedly I wanted those Normans, oh well. I also communicated often enough I was merely interested in the others if I knew what they were.

Well, I don't suppose you could explain the circumstances to the other guy who came in on this after?

Craig

You're right. You did say you wanted them, but I never see where he agrees to a deal or the small details that are present at the "agreement" phase (exchange of addresses, how to pay, etc).

Re: Normans

Sent: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:50 am
From: ashby(8)
To: templars
Craig,
I think we had some communication problems. The figures are sold pending payment. I feel bad about that and would gladly send you all the dark Age extras for postage. Somewhere around 50 figures and about half dozen mounted.
Let me know.

ashby (8)
New Trader

Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:40 pm

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I'm not even totally sure what I'm looking at here. It looks like it might be a copy of the previous message, but the time stamp is actually BEFORE the previous message in the string.

So, unless you've got more PM's in your history that you didn't include, or that one PM that seemed to be empty has some damning evidence, I just don't see a backout. At worst, I see sh*tty communication on his part which, without a deal having been made, is not reportable as a backout. It's just the kind of crappy behavior that means you should put him on your persona "Do Not trade" list.

So, do you have more?

Eric