Dogs of War?

[Imaginos]

I recall Dogs of War coming out back in 5th(?) edition of WHFB. Are they still a valid force in the current edition? What army book do they use? Where are the rules for them?

[spaz102]

They can be used, Rules can be on the GW site as a PDF.

[Imaginos]

Any chance you have a link? I don't see it.

[reegsk]

They may have taken down the DoW rules. If you give me your e-mail address, I can get them to you tonight.

They’re technically still valid, but you’ll find they’re horribly underpowered compared to newer armies. Now, this doesn’t detract from the fun (they’re a great army!), but don’t expect to win a lot of games against an equally-skilled player with, say, Dark Elves. Also, I don’t believe they’re still a valid tourney list for GW tourneys (although now that’s pretty much just ‘Ardboyz). Not sure about Indy Grand Tournaments or local tournaments.

[JohnHwangBT]

If you want the list, I would suggest you Google for - Warhammer "Dogs of War" PDF - and see what comes up.

[Imaginos]

Thanks for the tip John.

[orctez]

Here's a link that might help. I found the rules for the regular dogs of war units, but not for the regiments of reknown

Art

http://www.freewebs.com/theblacktavern/rules.htm

[Imaginos]

Thanks to reegsk for hooking me up with the regiments of reknown files.

[reegsk]

No sweat. The DoW were a great army concept. . .hopefully they'll redo them at some point. Maybe for simplicity's sake, make it so they're a stand alone army that can't be taken with other armies.

[Ironhide]

If memory serves the Dogs of War army book was way overpowered. I believe that is why they made the them a rare choice in the other armies. The last list I saw for them was in a White Dwarf.

[JohnHwangBT]

DoW haven't been overpowered as far as I've ever known in 6th, much less 7th. Power wise, nothing particularly standout. The Characters are bog standard Empire equivalent, and nobody complains about those. The War Machines are mediocre at best, and clearly inferior to Empire. Infantry is generally expensive.

What they did do was to allow non-DoW armies to break theme by patching designed-in holes. That's why the default DoW unit is Rare - because it can potentially break army concept - e.g. Heavy Cav for Welves, or Chariots for Dwarves.

[Ironhide]

To clarify, when I say DoW I include the regiments of renown. Pirazzo's Lost Legion, Braganza's Besiegers, Leopold's Leopard Comapny, and Long Drong's Slayer Pirates are a few units in my mind that are overpowered. Not to mention the standard pikeman are really overpowered for their points cost. Fight in four ranks, strike first even when charged, and gain +1 strength when charged by cavalry. All that for 10 points (+1 for heavy armor) and the unit size is 10+.

[JohnHwangBT]

Some of the DoW RoRs are pretty good, but the 0-1 limit is a pain, and that limits their effectiveness.
- Pizarro is a mix of shooting & fighting, but pales against DE Shades, or even Mengil.
- Braganza *looks* great, and is fairly-costed by formula, but is a horrible unit, buying FC & 50-pt Captain on a shooting unit
- Leopold is one of the better Pike units, being ItP, but they're still 12 pt humans in Light Armor - 3pts for ItP!
- Long Drong is about the best pistol Duellist unit DoW can buy, but still awfully expensive.
IMO, aside from the Slayers, none of the above RoRs are even close to competitive for their points.

While they sound good on paper, you will almost never find Pikes as Core in competitive DoW lists. Pikemen are actually practically worthless when compared to any other 10-pt Infantry, and auto-die to enemy Heavy Cav. They move as 6-pt Empire Swordsmen, fight worse with WS3, and die far faster in HtH with Sv6+ vs Sv4+, but cost twice as much. Point-for-point, DoW can do far better than taking Pike. For Pike to be competitive, they would need WS4 and cost up to 8 pts per model.

Not having had an army list update in ages means the book is well-understood by DoW players, and a typical playable build doesn't include much of what you mention above.

[Ironhide]

What? A pikeman unit with 24 men and a six man front is awesome. Heavy Cav charges it, they have to take 24xSTR 4 hits before they can even hit back.

I will agree they do cost too much. 8 points does sound better. I think 10 points back in 6th was about right, but not right for 7th. If I remember correctly the cost for a Empire spearman unit went down in 7th, so reducing the cost here would make since. Unless they just increase the pike's strength to +2 instead of +1. Then I could see the 10 point cost.

[JohnHwangBT]

There is no Heavy Cav unit outside the DoW list which should lose to DoW Pike. For same number of points, every single Heavy Cav unit in the Warhammer universe should have no trouble wining the charge, and usually blow right through. For example, that Pike unit you proposed is 300 pts. For the same 300 pts, that's 12 Bret KotR. Or you look at FPA Empire Knights or ASF HE Knights. Or VC Knights? Any way you slice it, Heavy Cav are going to own DoW Pikes. They're just not that good.