Bartertown.com

Hey all.. asking questions in advance, cause you do NOT want to start a frivolous BTR, donchaknow.

Here is the situation, in a nutshell.

I made an agreement to trade with someone over in the UK area, for my Glade Guard parts for some genestealer parts. Total value on the trade is less than $20. He had way less refs, and agreed to shipping first. The LAST PM I got from him was on/around the 14th of August, and included the line "Let me know when they arrive".

Since then, no parcel has arrived, and no communication from the trader. I have sent 3-4 PM's, about 1 per week, and they have moved from Outbox to Sentbox .. and I have been checking that trader occasionally to see when they were last online, and they seem to be fairly diligent to be online here.

What is bugging the crud outta me is the total lack of communication. If he is online, and reading my PM's he should be able to take a moment and reply. My assumption at this point is that he did NOT mail his end of things, and I cannot expect him to even take the moment to respond.

Since I am not out anything, except time and aggravation, I don't think this is a BTR in the making. I have sent him another PM with a time deadline, which has moved to sentbox, without response, so I am thinking this qualifies more as a BackOut.. but he said NOTHING about backing out.. so maybe it DOES qualify as a BTR.

He certainly has made my future DNT list, but my inclination is that there should be something more.. and then I swing back on the pendulum because it is "only" less than $20, and I never shipped my side.

Now, I can and will post a BTR with all associated PM's, if I get to that point, but don't want to use them here.. so I am just going for others impressions.. and to get what they would do in this situation..

Input anyone?

-Porkuslime

Backouts are considered a bad trade and can be given a BTR and a negative if you want. Ultimately, it's up to you.

Bee
Tee
Are

While it might not be the case, it fits many of the earmarks of an attempted scam.
IMO, a BTR is required, as he didn't BACK OUT, he just (apparently) didn't send what he promised to, and never communicated anything to you, though he is obviously getting your PM's.

You say he's fairly regular here. Is he posting trade ads? If so, do they include the stuff you were trading for?

If I was in your shoes, I'd do the BTR and post in every ad he puts up... Something like, "Hey. I see you're getting my Pm's about your shipment to me not arriving but, i'm not getting any responses. can you get back to me, please?" it'll serve as a warning to others behind you AND require him to face you if he ever wants to have a successful trade again on here.

Just my opinion. Take it or leave it.

Eric

There was an issue with a trader in the UK sending his items and they took 47 days to arrive.
Go here. and read at least the last few entires.
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=68940

I myself sometimes pop on and read a message while at work, and intend to respond when I get home and completely forget, or think that I did when I hadn't. If you have his name and address google him and see if you can get his phone number. I realize he may be overseas, but if you get him on the phone you will find out for sure what the deal is.

We're all human, and we're gamers, which means we might not exacty have it together sometimes .
I've got one guy who agreed to a trade and asked for my address on August 1st, said he would ship on Tuesday August 5th. He has yet to log on and read the message with my address. I started negotioating with this guy in MAY! I am so frustrated I could scream!

MagickalMemories wrote: While it might not be the case, it fits many of the earmarks of an attempted scam.
IMO, a BTR is required, as he didn't BACK OUT, he just (apparently) didn't send what he promised to, and never communicated anything to you, though he is obviously getting your PM's.

You say he's fairly regular here. Is he posting trade ads? If so, do they include the stuff you were trading for?

If I was in your shoes, I'd do the BTR and post in every ad he puts up... Something like, "Hey. I see you're getting my Pm's about your shipment to me not arriving but, i'm not getting any responses. can you get back to me, please?" it'll serve as a warning to others behind you AND require him to face you if he ever wants to have a successful trade again on here.

I have given him until Tuesday Noon, Eastern (in a PM over the weekend which moved so I think he read it) to get in touch, or I would open a BTR.

I just feel a little "silly" essentially starting a BTR for such a small amount of stuff.. I know in the past I have been a proponent of "amount does not matter, behavior does" thinking.. and now that I am in that position, I guess it is time to follow thru and put theory into practice.

MM, I am thinking that posting into any trade add he runs... might that wander close to intimidation?

Dakkar98, thanks for the link.. that is more appropriate than you might have suspected.

-Porkuslime

Dakkar98 wrote:There was an issue with a trader in the UK sending his items and they took 47 days to arrive.
Go here. and read at least the last few entires.
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=68940

I myself sometimes pop on and read a message while at work, and intend to respond when I get home and completely forget, or think that I did when I hadn't. If you have his name and address google him and see if you can get his phone number. I realize he may be overseas, but if you get him on the phone you will find out for sure what the deal is.

We're all human, and we're gamers, which means we might not exacty have it together sometimes .
I've got one guy who agreed to a trade and asked for my address on August 1st, said he would ship on Tuesday August 5th. He has yet to log on and read the message with my address. I started negotioating with this guy in MAY! I am so frustrated I could scream!

Agree, things from the UK have a habit of taking a long time to get to the states. I traded with a guy in Australia once and if I remember correctly it took almost 3 months for the things to get to me. I'd wait at least a month for something coming from over seas. Don't qoute me on this, but I don't believe he would have any means of tracking it either. Need to find a Brit member to properly answer that.

Yes, but Ironhide, the worry is not so much that it is in transit, as.. the trader has NOT responded to any PM's.. heck, if he had mailed it, I would like to know.. what is frustrating is the lack of communication. Well, that and the deliver time..

-P

I don't think you shoud feel "silly" because the amount in under $20 dollars,the amount is really irrelevant,a bad trade is a bad trade,myself however,i would look at it as a back out.
There is no good reason not responding to several PM's,one i can see being forgotten about,but several???
Sounds like your being Avoided
Not sure it would warrent a BTR but a "Backout" i would agree with and possibly a Negative feedback,due to him ignoring your PM's,Thats just plain Rude,on top of the "backout"

Cheers
Steve

I'm just suggesting you wait a month at least until you do it. Would look silly if you did a BTR or DB/BO and the package arrived a couple days later.

porkuslime wrote:I have given him until Tuesday Noon, Eastern (in a PM over the weekend which moved so I think he read it) to get in touch, or I would open a BTR.

I just feel a little "silly" essentially starting a BTR for such a small amount of stuff.. I know in the past I have been a proponent of "amount does not matter, behavior does" thinking.. and now that I am in that position, I guess it is time to follow thru and put theory into practice.

MM, I am thinking that posting into any trade add he runs... might that wander close to intimidation?

Dakkar98, thanks for the link.. that is more appropriate than you might have suspected.

-Porkuslime

First off, ironHide has a good point in that giving him a month is a decent thing to do.
If, however, he's running scams, he can do a LOT of damage in that month.

You said, "He had way less refs," but not what his rating is. Understandable, of course. You're doing a good job in concealing his identity. Telling us what it is would allow some deductive reasoning and sleuthing to turn him up (or narrow it down to a few traders, likely).

Based on that, I see a potential for scamming.
For those who don't know, here's how it has been done in the past:

Trader A has a higher rating than Trader B.
Regardless of HOW they come into contact, they do... and strike a deal.
Trader B agrees (and often VOLUNTEERS) to ship first.

A period of time (days to weeks) after the agreement is reached, trader B contacts trader A, asking if he received the stuff and wanting to know when trader A will ship.

Now, from here, it becomes a Con game (con being an abbreviation for confidence). Essentially, Trader B finds a way to charm Trader A into sending, based on his word that he's sent.

--You might be "Pshaw"ing right now, but -let me tell you- it happens. As I recall, Steve Jones and Jason Ticknor were MASTERS at this.--

Trader A agrees to ship his stuff and BINGO!

Another variant starts out the same but, since it's a low $ amount of a trade, Trader B tries to convince Trader A to simu-ship. Again, it's a Con game and the con artist (they aren't called "artist" for nothing) is usually pretty good. He'll try everything from "low dollar amount" to "being new and not knowing ow to trust Trader A" and anything else he thinks will work.
I can't remember who it was, but i've SEEN this one documented in the BTR forum, as well. I've seen it from the side of the guy who fell for it AND the guy who didn't.
With the guys who don't fall for it, Trader A will, either, "cancel" the trade or "agree' to it but never send anything.

If he "agrees" he might resort to the first example above as a secondary tactic or simply cease communications. I've seen both of those happen, as well.

Now, as far as "intimidation" is concerned... I would DEFINITELY not consider it to be that, if you were writing simple, non-aggressive notes in his threads. You are making NO attempts at intimidation. They're attempts at communication in regards to a trade he seems to be defaulting.
At WORST, you might be seen as threadjacking, since you aren't posting about the trade thread that you're posting in but, a previous one. Unless, of course, that thread has listed the items you were supposed to be trading for... in which case, you are directly inquiring about items in his thread.
Either way, do you think thee's a Mod who's going to peg you for it without provocation? I could be... w... wr....wron... wwrroooooooongggg... (Whew, that was hard to say LOL), but I doubt it. I know *I* wouldn't say anything to you about it.

If the complains to an Mod that you're threadjacking and the Mod warns you about it... tell him why you are doing it and ask him to inquire with the guy.
Know how likely I think it is that the guy would complain, though?


Now, should the person ignoring you be reading this right now, then:
You are guilty of, either, scamming or poor trade etiquette. I don't know which and I am not speculating. if you were to "Man Up" and contact porkuslime, however, you wouldn't have to worry about people's assumptions!

Eric

Again... all my opinion based on my experience... blah blah blah... use your own judgement... blah blah blah... don't blame me... blah blah blah.

It can take a long time for international trades to go through. That's why I don't like to do them.

That said, he should have gotten back to you with some acknowledgement and information, if only to tell you the ship date and the customs #.

Just a little input here.I travel alot so cant always get to a computer,but I do use my phone to check my emails.If he is reading PMs on a phone he might not be able to respond cause he cant click on the reply,no mouse,see.I once had a guy who was doing the exact same thing with his phone and when he got home a week later he got in touch with me and explained the whole thing.Course if he is logging on, my argument is out the door.

Not sure, but do Iphones and those kool new "I gotta have it" gadets, have a good browser. I know my Bro-in-law has an older Iphone and he can effectively suf the web with the on-screen keyboard

I just have a phone Mine cant do all that way cool stuff and I just got it a couple weeks ago.I gotta have a pretty durable and simple phone for work.Some of the places I work are not very electronics friendly.Im not saying its what is happening but a lot of people say if PMs are looked at then the person should respond,its just not always the case.

Just a small point here. MM, posting a "hey, you still owe me from our previous trade" in a new Trade post *would* constitude thread-jacking and as such could (and should) get served with a Stern Warning. Don't go there.

At any rate, for the most part I agree with MM that if the trade has been agreed to and he's even said he's shipping the items out, at that point it's a BTR if the items don't arrive. While I understand that international shipping can take forever (one of the reasons that I don't do International trades), the complete lack of communication is enough for a BTR IMO, especially after he's already said he's "shipped" the item.

-Dwarf