Bartertown.com

Should the Backouts and Deadbeats forum be applicable to those who do not leave refs, even after a polite reminder has been sent? Should it be applicable to those who do not even acknowledge receipt of goods?

After all, Bartertown is founded on the basis of users leaving feedback for their trades in the hope that other users will not be ripped off or taken advantage of. IMHO, those users who do not leave refs are essentially leeching off the diligence and commitment of more responsible users.

Essentially, I ask this question because I've had more than 6 separate traders over the last month not leave refs (or even acknowledge receipt of the item - thank god for DC#!) when A) a ref has been left for them and B) I've left them a polite reminder. It's extremely frustrating.

Hmmmm...never really thought about that,but you have a point,B-town is based on feedback,and now that a Neutral gives 0 feedback,there is no reason not to give one.
So, I answered Number one as a YES

I feel your pain. I have had a few fall through the cracks. Most of them, if you keep sending them messages, will end up leaving you references. At least the ones that didn't leave references for me right away have.

It is dissapointing that you have to keep reminding your trade partners that you have done your part and should get a reference. I know that some experienced Bartertowners ONLY give references after they have received theirs. That might help you a little. Just let them know that you won't leave them a reference until they do the same for you (most traders here will probably have a lower rating than you).

As annoying as it is, I don't think it is something that needs to end up in the BTR's. I have added one or two to my DNT list and left it at that.

In a way, they ARE being deadbeats (or just LAZY) for not helping the Bartertown community. Leaving informative references to help the rest of us make decisions about our trade partners character are integral to the system. However, throwing them to the wolves for a slight offence seems a bit of an overreaction. But then again, initially I was against the deadbeats forum but I agree wholeheartedly with it now.

Karl

How about the ones that don't respond to repeated PMs at all, not just for feedback...

Feedback is a choice, not an obligation. You got what you wanted, the other person got what they wanted. Be happy with that. Just because the person didn't leave feedback doesn't make them a deadbeat. After all, do you fill out customer feedback forms at every restaurant or store you visit? I've had more trades than my ITL rating shows, but do you see me making an issue out of it? No, because it just isn't that important to me.

If you don't like the fact they didn't leave feedback, then don't trade with them again.

B-town is based on feedback

B-Town is based on fellow wargamers trading their old models for money or newer ones (or vice versa), not on feedback. Feedback is just icing on the cake. Ebay is based on feedback.

Ironhide wrote:Feedback is a choice, not an obligation.

I never said it was an obligation. However, it's strongly recommended. Here's a quote from Lin:

On Feedback
It is your responsibility to leave feedback for your trading partners. The ITL is what sets Btown apart and lets honest traders build a reputation. It only takes about a minute to leave feedback. LEAVE FEEDBACK!!

I have a feeling Lin wouldn't make it a point to say "LEAVE FEEDBACK", if it wasn't a basis for what sets Btown apart from other trading sites.

If we were all just "happy to be trading" and no one left feedback, there'd be no way to celebrate accomplished traders, keep track of the bad ones, and generally foster a sense of community. A lot of sensed users here also use the ITL system to figure out who sends first. Some will not deal with traders below a certain number.

Ironhide wrote: B-Town is based on fellow wargamers trading their old models for money or newer ones (or vice versa), not on feedback. Feedback is just icing on the cake. Ebay is based on feedback.

By that rationale, Ebay is based on sellers selling goods and buyers buying goods. Not on feedback. At least try to be consistent in your argument.

There have been a few threads about people not leaving feedback in the past although without Deadbeat Reports (DBR) being part of the discussion. DBR's bring a new twist on this. However, if leaving a DB report is considered, what will happen with the positive feedback already left? If they are to be removed, the admins would have extra work to do. It would also make no sense to remove it since the other party followed through on their part of the trade. I do agree that something needs to be done to make sure both traders receive feedback.

I would like to see a system where positive feedback only shows up when feedback is left for the other party. BTR's and DBR's excluded of course. Changing the ITL would mean more work for the admins. If both parties were courteous enough negotiate a trade and follow through with, I don't why both parties can take two minutes of their time to leave a reference. Courtesy is the simple solution.

We could always circulate a Deadbeat list of those who do not leave feedback. Seems there is already a DNT list circulating.

YoungWolf777 wrote:How about the ones that don't respond to repeated PMs at all, not just for feedback...

That's just rude though, and not something that is even remotely close to a deadbeat trader.

I HATE no PM replies, but it truely is a horse of a different color

Erik

Instead of all that, a system should be put in where you must LEAVE feedback to RECEIVE feedback. t stinks when you leave a ref for someone & they dont return the favor.

I'd rather not have a forum where people can report everything they don't like about another trader's actions. I thought one of the appeals of the site was how loosly it was run. I'm worried this will go away as the list of things you can't do gets longer.

Maybe instead of complaining about people not 'behaving', a better use of people's time would be to make a guide to trading on bartertown with all the various things people should do - something positive to encourage proper behavior rather than something negative to punish improper behavior.

nightshade_eyes wrote:I would like to see a system where positive feedback only shows up when feedback is left for the other party.

This has been mentioned before and it's a good idea. I would much prefer this option to labeling people deadbeats. I hope it's on the todo list, but i don't expect to see it anytime soon.

starslayer wrote:Instead of all that, a system should be put in where you must LEAVE feedback to RECEIVE feedback. t stinks when you leave a ref for someone & they dont return the favor.

I think this is a better idea than leaving a deadbeat/negative report somewhere, but it doesn't help when someone with a lower score trades with someone in the 200 range. I'm negatively affected when feedback isn't left for me, whereas someone in the 200 range doesn't care anymore, they have a big trade score to lay back on.

brettness37 wrote:

starslayer wrote:Instead of all that, a system should be put in where you must LEAVE feedback to RECEIVE feedback. t stinks when you leave a ref for someone & they dont return the favor.

I think this is a better idea than leaving a deadbeat/negative report somewhere, but it doesn't help when someone with a lower score trades with someone in the 200 range. I'm negatively affected when feedback isn't left for me, whereas someone in the 200 range doesn't care anymore, they have a big trade score to lay back on.

Not true. I have over 200 & I still leave feedback for trades. But I see your point. I dont like he "tattle tail" system though. It could swamp the Mods.

starslayer wrote: Not true. I have over 200 & I still leave feedback for trades. But I see your point. I dont like he "tattle tail" system though. It could swamp the Mods.

That's awesome that you do, but my point is that if you never receive another feedback, 316 is pretty hard to argue with

brettness37 wrote:

starslayer wrote:Instead of all that, a system should be put in where you must LEAVE feedback to RECEIVE feedback. t stinks when you leave a ref for someone & they dont return the favor.

I think this is a better idea than leaving a deadbeat/negative report somewhere, but it doesn't help when someone with a lower score trades with someone in the 200 range. I'm negatively affected when feedback isn't left for me, whereas someone in the 200 range doesn't care anymore, they have a big trade score to lay back on.

First...
I voted No.
Honestly, it's because I think the same way that Vesrian does about it.

I don't want us to become a site where we complain about every little thing our trade partners or potential trade partners do "wrong." Micromanagement of the trades isn't good, IMO.

To address bretness, though...
You honestly couldn't be farther from wrong in regards to some traders not caring anymore.
In my experience, there isn't any rating that a trader hits where he feels like he can just lay back and not worry about compiling more.
Not only is it a show of just how much trust you have established, but it's a source of pride.
I can tell you that I'm proud of my rating. I've done over 100 trades with no negatives or neutrals. That isn't going to stop just because I've hit a high number. I would dare say the same goes for those in the 3, 4 5 and 6 hundreds, as well.

That being said, however, I agree with your REASON for saying what you did. I'm in favor of a system where your ref doesn't show up (and, in fact, you don't even know what KIND of a ref was left for you) until after you leave your ref... Provided there was a system in place to override it in the case of scammers and deadbeats, of course.


Eric

starslayer wrote:

brettness37 wrote:

starslayer wrote:Instead of all that, a system should be put in where you must LEAVE feedback to RECEIVE feedback. t stinks when you leave a ref for someone & they dont return the favor.

I think this is a better idea than leaving a deadbeat/negative report somewhere, but it doesn't help when someone with a lower score trades with someone in the 200 range. I'm negatively affected when feedback isn't left for me, whereas someone in the 200 range doesn't care anymore, they have a big trade score to lay back on.

Not true. I have over 200 & I still leave feedback for trades. But I see your point. I dont like he "tattle tail" system though. It could swamp the Mods.

Yeah,thats not so,i like getting feedback now as much as i did when i had a score of 10.
There are people who make it a habit of never leaving feedback,you have to check the feedback they were given to see however.
Not leaving feedback,like not replying to PM's is something for me that throws a traders rep into a bad light.