D&D 4.0

[ohioguy]

Has anybody got theirs yet and what do they think of it so far?

[insidius]

Upon first inspection it looks very interesting and fun to play.

[MagickalMemories]

I haven't gotten the books and don't plan to.

Recently, I read an article by someone I happen to know from when I lived in VA (who is in the "professional gaming community") about this new system.

It was a very positive article, detailing some of the changes to the system and talking about how generally great the new system was going to be.

It had the opposite effect on me.
I'm going to sell my 3.0/3.5 stuff and collect the 2nd edition stuff I've gotten rid of and, eventually, go back to playing 2nd edition D&D. It's the last edition I had any faith in or got any enjoyment out of.

Eric

[CypherIsGod]

I've been reading through it over the weekend. I think it is a phenomenal system. My only gripe is it does not have the same D&D feel. I liked 3rd edition, though, and I think I had the same feeling when I first read through the 3rd edition book too. I probably won't play it for a while, but if I do, I'll post how it played. There is usually a big difference between how something reads and how something plays.

- Craig

[mrrshann618]

I'm going to sell my 3.0/3.5 stuff and collect the 2nd edition stuff I've gotten rid of and, eventually, go back to playing 2nd edition D&D. It's the last edition I had any faith in or got any enjoyment out of.

Eric

2nd was the last edition that I really played. I tried 3rd, and 3.5 but it seemed like they were trying to hard to make things simple by adding rules. Now my memory may be bad, And I'm sure it is, But 2nd was fairly simple. I jumped from basic (red box, one book, not red box two books) into 2nd. There was a little hickup but nothing major.


3rd had all these feats and thingajiggers. All these exceptions to the combination of rules and interpretations. I bought a few things, Midnight, WoW the rpg, and yes, even munchkin, but it was all so much gobbledy gook that it is sitting in my basement somewhere, spankin new in some cases, right next the assortment of 2nd that is well abused and used.

[kturock]

it's ok.
it's a computer game done on pen and paper. it's what DDO should have been.
it already says that there will be at least 2 more players handbooks. monks, bards, barbarians, druids and pscionists are not in this PH; but will be in future releases.

everytime you level up, you gain a new power, feat, skill or attribute point; just like computer games. it even has 'respecs'.

i don't like hit point based systems; where you're at 100% till your out of hp. it has the 'bloodied' trait, where at 1/2 hp, you may lose or gain an ability. 1 or the races has a blood lust and gains +1 if an oppenent is bloodied.

it has a couple new races, fey and dragonborn; both i've seen in other systems.

it offers alot of choices, and has the need for many books. you have 3 different tiers; 1-10, 11-20, 21-30. you specialize as you change tiers. it also allows multi-classing.

it's a new system for those who don't mind buying new books every 3 monthes.
i'll stick to savage worlds. 1 book has everything. other books are optional.

.

[MagickalMemories]

What I've seen of it makes it seem as if the GAME was written to be combat oriented. "D&D" 3.0/3.5 started the trend towards that, and 4th ed seems to be the next step in refining it.

I don't want an RPG that's combat oriented. I want an RPG that defines itself as a ROLE playing game. Give me combat rules, but give me other stuff, as well... in equal or greater abundance.

I used to love 2nd ed combat. It was all about "swing, miss" or "swing, hit."
Now, however, they've got flanking and synergy bonuses and shadow jumping and 5'+ reaches and attacks of opportunity and...

Blech.


Eric

[kturock]

MM, 2 things you should understand.
1- D&D was created from tactical games, like the old avalon hill board games.
2- most gamers and games, truely are hack-n-slash.

if it was just about roleplaying, the MMOs would be out of business.

yes, there are some rp servers for every mmo, but it's a small percentage. [and yes, i used to play on one in daoc, and i spoke troll]

[JohnHwangBT]

the GAME was written to be combat oriented. "D&D" 3.0/3.5 started the trend towards that, and 4th ed seems to be the next step in refining it.

I want an RPG that defines itself as a ROLE playing game. Give me combat rules, but give me other stuff, as well... in equal or greater abundance.

Yes, D&D is a highly-glorified combat resolution system, but the idea that 3E started the trend is totally false. D&D has been a combat system since 0E (i.e Chainmail), and refinement in 4E can only be a good thing.

Maybe you should play Vampire or some other Emo-friendly game?

Or maybe look into a game with a hyper-lethal (i.e. "realistic") combat system that discourages actual combat.

[mrrshann618]

To be honest I've always prefered Chaosium's rules for comat and damage.

How I remember D&D
Full plate = harder to hit "What do you mean I have to roll a 20 to slap him?"

Chaosium = harder to damage "I hit him no problem, if he feels it is another story"

Each combat round was a bit longer "Attack parry" style vs Attack hope he misses.
Chaosium even put out a really nice Dark Fantasy game under the guise of Elric and Hawkmoon. There should be people here who know of those book lines.

However the BEST Chaosium game was Call of Cthulhu. "Yeah, so you got a big gun, I have a Shoggoth Mwhaahahaha!!!"

[MagickalMemories]

MM, 2 things you should understand.
1- D&D was created from tactical games, like the old avalon hill board games.
2- most gamers and games, truely are hack-n-slash.

if it was just about roleplaying, the MMOs would be out of business.

yes, there are some rp servers for every mmo, but it's a small percentage. [and yes, i used to play on one in daoc, and i spoke troll]

Oh, I know.
I mean, the original name of the company was"Tactical Studies Rules." The D&D franchise evolved from Chainmail, though. it didn't stick with it. As the game progressed, they added in more rules and facets of the game to deal with ROLE playing, instead of ROLL playing.

Most gamers I've known are truly not hack & slash. In fact, I've never gamed with a H&S player in my adult life for more than a session or 3.
Those few I came across typically left our group after their first night of gaming with no combat. As an adult, I've gamed with about 25 or so other adults. Maybe 5 (tops) were H&S.

Yes, D&D is a highly-glorified combat resolution system, but the idea that 3E started the trend is totally false. D&D has been a combat system since 0E (i.e Chainmail), and refinement in 4E can only be a good thing.

I disagree on part of that.
Like I said, it did start as a combat system (Chainmail), but it evolved, then devolved (IMO).
Chainmail was rules for combat. As their game sessions changed, so did their rules.
By the time D&D (boxed sets) came along, they were starting to stress the RP of the G. They hadn't included many rules or skills/abilities yet, but they were working on it. The spells, for example, weren't all combat oriented.
First ed, then second had whole areas devoted to the NON combat aspect of the game. The proficiency system (not weapon prof's, the NWP's) had nothing combat oriented in it, IIRC. You can't really basket weave a goblin in the head.
We saw a bunch more stuff, from spells to magic items and everything in between that weren't about combat.
Look through the "Handbook" series from 2nd edition. With the exception of the warrior classes, just about every handbook had a bunch of "kits" designed for Role Playing your character and NOT for fighting.

I maintain that, after Chainmail (which wasn't D&D), D&D had become a ROLE PLAYING game with a combat system integrated into it.
IMO, 3.0 was the beginning of it BECOMING a combat system with RPG integrated into it. Everything seemed generated towards making your character tougher and not towards rounding out your character and/or making them "more enjoyable" (unless combat is what you enjoy about D&D).

Maybe you should play Vampire or some other Emo-friendly game?

You better bite that frigging tongue!!!!

Or maybe look into a game with a hyper-lethal (i.e. "realistic") combat system that discourages actual combat.

Nah. Don't want that, either. I like combat the way it was in 1e & 2e.

Like I said, IMO, 2nd ed was the "heyday" of AD&D and I'm gonna just stay there.

Eric

[JohnHwangBT]

WotC is merely listening to their players, by stripping out the useless stuff in D&D. The d20 mechanic is perfectly fine for resolving things, combat or otherwise. If you choose not to do combat, that's OK, too.

But really, combat is simply the ultimate resolution mechanic. So no biggie if D&D spends a lot of time there.

Plus, it's *fun*.

[montaa]

You can't really basket weave a goblin in the head.

Dont limit your imagination...

Sneak past guards with silenced jug of water (DC 23)

Dont wake the wolves in the corridor (DC 15, behind a wall)

Spot the shield and sword lying haphazardly near the side of the bed (DC 17)

Quietly Weave basket around Goblin Bosses head (DC 26)

All of this would of course be easier if you were a multi classed Rogue/Wizard with a silence spell of some kind -5 DC on all but the wolves.

Now tell me THAT isnt role playing!!

[DarkSoul]

If you have been playing D&D, like me, from its concept back in 78.. yea I'm that old...

The new edition is utter rubbish...

Basically they expanded the rules for these combat oriented click type games and called it D&D.. I bought the books read through about 10 pages in it.. found out that magic users have at will spells and thought to myself.. wow.. this is stupid.. their is no more strategy in the game no more figuring out what you want to spend your skills points on.. what feat to take next.. its all laid out for you.. its just a PC game put to pen and paper.. If you like the Click type games.. and want to just crawl through mindless dungeon after dungeon.. then 4th edition is for you.. If you like to role play... well your just SOL... buy something else...

--

[MagickalMemories]

If you have been playing D&D, like me, from its concept back in 78.. yea I'm that old...

The new edition is utter rubbish...
--

I'm from 81, myself.. So I hear ya.
Just a couple of geezers we are, I guess.

Wanna join a 2nd edition campaign? All you have to do is move tot he St. Louis area (I'm actualy about 25 - 30 miles south, though). LOL

I don't play computer games, really, and haven't played ANY Clix since about 3 months after MechWarrior came out. Oddly enough, neither appeal to me.

Imagine that.


Eric