Bartertown.com

I have started this thought (it might not be original)... but every time I complete a transaction and we negotiate a price I ask the person purchasing if they would like to add approximately half the paypal fees. It isn't a deal breaker and isn't required. Some say no some say yes. A few have thought it was a good idea and might start using it. I thought with the increase in PayPal fees, ebay fees and the like if we all started doing it as a way to help each other out it would decrease the costs for everyone involved. It might be rather utopian in theory to ask someone to add in money out of kindness and by choice, but I would say since I started out of 12 transaction I've had two out and out rejections. Thoughts? Want to start a trend?

To look at it in a different light, it is similar to asking for pay for half of the postage as costs all around are going up.

Some people negotiate shipping included some specify other. while some do not specify at all.

As long as you spell it out right away I do not see a problem with it. If you wish to use paypal then you might have to pay for convienience. If you purchase a MO to pay with you pay a fee.

The biggest part is that the paypal fee negotiation is part of the opening exhange, that way noone has a week of negotions in and then backs out because of that.

imho

Now, I don't know exactly how this is going to come out... but it's not meant in any sort of negative way. Just an exchange of thoughts.
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If we were negotiating a purchase and, once done, you made that request of me, I would do it... then never purchase anything from you again. I wouldn't put you on a DNT list... more of a DNB list (Do Not Buy). I wouldn't judge you or think less of you. I just wouldn't buy from you. I'd still trade, however.

I'd feel like I was "submarined" by you, if you did that at any time, except up front. Of course, I'd pay it. I'd feel like a jerk if you asked and I said, "No." I'd imagine that many newer or lower rated traders would feel worried about refusing... as if it might hurt their reputation here.

IMO, it's a bad call. If you want to recover any of your PayPal fees, that should be included in the final cost you quote while haggling. To haggle/barter with someone, then say "wanna give me more money?" could risk some hard feelings, IMO.

Heck! I don't mind paying ALL of your PayPal fees... as long as it's factored in to the cost of the deal that I agree to and not tacked on at the end, even if it's offered as "optional."

Honestly, my thoughts are not that the majority of people (who paid) thought it was a good idea. Mine is that the majority of them didn't want to ruin a good trade (or relationship) over a matter of a buck or three, so chalked it up to $$ spent for a good cause (the relationship, their reputation, etc).

Anyway, that's just my $.02. Take it for what it's worth.

Eric

If you were to ask me to pay for paypal fees, I would politely decline. As a seller, you should be have already calculated those fees into the price you place on the item. I'm not trying to come off like everyone on B-Town that sells stuff should think like a store owner, but adding on a couple bucks for paypal fees just seems like nickel and diming when trying to make a sale.

Besides if I was going to pay any fee, I would get a USPS money order. I'm much more protected than I am on paypal and it is extremely cheap:
USPS - MO Fees
$0.01 to $500.00 .......................$1.05
$500.01 to $1,000.00 ................$1.50
You may say that you don't want to wait the few days for the money order to get to you, but in that case you should pay the paypal fees for the instant satisfaction of getting the money.

I have 2 paypal accounts, which they say you can do, one is a premier account, the other personal. Personal accounts cannot accept credit card payments, only paypal balance transfers, and there is no fee associated. I usually ask how they will be paying from paypal. If they are using cash already in paypal, then I give them a few bucks off and have them use my personal account. If they are paying by credit card, then they can use the regular account at the price we agreed on. It is much better to surprise someone with a few bucks off, than to surprise them by asking them for a few bucks more to cover my seller fees.

Just my $.02 on the issue. (Damn... paypal is going to get $.001 of that aren't they??)

- Craig

I never thought of it like people were being backed into it based on what others or myself would think of them. See I liked it because it was their choice and not a requirement. As for a do not buy thing... its odd how a person will draw a conclusion based off of the way they feel and never mention it above board. Your 100% correct in saying people would do this or have this feeling, but how much more simple the world would be if we just spoke our minds rather than take action on a perception.

I think I will tell people up front that I am requesting not requiring they put up half the paypal fees. I still like it to be the person's choice, but your input about being backed into after the fact is still a good one. I try to tell them it doesn't affect the sale at all and will affect no further dealings but it is a trend I'm trying to start. Yet, as you have demonstrated, some people won't take it at face value and assume something negative.

Lochlannon wrote:I never thought of it like people were being backed into it based on what others or myself would think of them. See I liked it because it was their choice and not a requirement. As for a do not buy thing... its odd how a person will draw a conclusion based off of the way they feel and never mention it above board. Your 100% correct in saying people would do this or have this feeling, but how much more simple the world would be if we just spoke our minds rather than take action on a perception.

You're right. It would be a lot easier. Unfortunately, most people (including myself, surprisingly), prefer to avoid conflict when it is, either, unnecessary or unimportant enough to avoid if possible.

For me, as I said, I wouldn't think LESS of you if you "popped" it on me at the end. I just wouldn't like it. I also wouldn't bring it up for risk of ending up in an arguement. I like you, Loch. We've both been around a while and I respect that established traders each have their own "things" about deals. I, for example, ask for a bazillion details about your item if it is NOT MIB or MOS (mint on sprue). So, for me, it's more of a "he has his way, I have mine" thing, really. Even more than it's about avoiding potential conflict.

Lochlannon wrote:I think I will tell people up front that I am requesting not requiring they put up half the paypal fees. I still like it to be the person's choice, but your input about being backed into after the fact is still a good one. I try to tell them it doesn't affect the sale at all and will affect no further dealings but it is a trend I'm trying to start. Yet, as you have demonstrated, some people won't take it at face value and assume something negative.

I think up front is an awesome thing to do.
Heck, put it IN your ad; "If you are purchasing items from me and paying via PayPal, I request that you pay half of the fees they assess. I do not require it, and it will not affect ou deal if you choose not to."
...or something like that...

Because, if you think about it, you know that, no matter HOW MANY times you tell people something, some of them are still going to think you're being dishonest about it. A pessimistic person will presume you're trying to guilt someone into it... or that you DO mean insult, though you say "No insult intended" or... Well, you get the idea.

Also, when you said, "Yet, as you have demonstrated, some people won't take it at face value and assume something negative," I hope you weren't thinking that I was assuming something NEGATIVE. That wasn't the case. I was just stating my dislike for the "at the last moment" part.

L8r)
Eric

Nah.. negative was a bad choice of words.. maybe at face value would have been better. The conclusion that I was trying to draw which is a restatement of what you, yourself have stated is that regardless of how much you tell people your intentions they still have their opinions. The upfront thing and the adding to the post is a great idea which I will indeed do. I think people have been messed with and dealt with such dishonesty on a such regular basis that when faced with something when taken at face value is a good thing, we search of the possiblities of something being "off". You simply don't like it, but others will attach further reasons that we can never forsee.

Also, I am hoping other people will follow suit.. a warm fuzzy part I admit but it would be rather nifty.

Doesn't paypal have something in their policy about it violating the policy to demand the buyer pay the paypal fee?

Morally I don't see a problem with it, unless you tacked it on as a suprise at the end.

I'd say the best way to do it is to factor in the paypal fee in the price you want to get for your items.

paypal says you can't charge for fees. they do say you can only charge a 'reasonable' ammount for shipping and handleing.. so you make the fees part of the handleing charge..

or just don't accept them...

if the money is a direct bank transfer, or from paypal fees, there si no charge. if it's from a debit or credit card, even a paypal credit card, then there's a fee.

Well.. asking people to help with half by their own choice certainly doesn't violate that.. so at least thats a plus.

kturock wrote: if the money is a direct bank transfer, or from paypal fees, there si no charge. if it's from a debit or credit card, even a paypal credit card, then there's a fee.

That's not entirely true from my experience. It depends on the type of account you have. I get charged on my premier account no matter where the money comes from. I tried sending paypal balance money from my personal account to my premier account and I got charged a fee. That's the reason they let you have 2 accounts. Maybe things have changed in the years since I did the test, I don't keep up to date it.

- Craig

CypherIsGod wrote:

kturock wrote: if the money is a direct bank transfer, or from paypal fees, there si no charge. if it's from a debit or credit card, even a paypal credit card, then there's a fee.

That's not entirely true from my experience. It depends on the type of account you have. I get charged on my premier account no matter where the money comes from. I tried sending paypal balance money from my personal account to my premier account and I got charged a fee. That's the reason they let you have 2 accounts. Maybe things have changed in the years since I did the test, I don't keep up to date it.

- Craig

you're right.. i should have speciifed that..
thats' why i have a personal account,which they won't let you get anymore.

on premier and business accounts, you get charged for everything.

@Lochlannon, the whole thing depends on how you structure your up-front information.

For example, I might say 25% to 30% discount from retail, depending on volume, and $5 S&H. As we negotiate, if you tell me that you'll pay via PayPal, I might not be as flexible on the $5 S&H, or discount. OTOH, if you're going to meet me with cash in hand, I might be a lot more flexible in the negotiation.

Technically, PayPal doesn't want you to charge more for using PayPal. But that's because their fees are back-end on the seller / receiver, rather than front-end on the buyer / sender. So it's really an unfair apples and oranges competitive advantage that PayPal is trying to present to the buyer / sender.

So what you might do to get around this is to to with $10 S&H with a $5 credit against whoever pays the Money Order and mailing fees. In the case of PayPal payers, they are not eligible for this because you get stuck with the fees. But it isn't discriminatory against PayPal because it's a reasonable handling fee that would apply to any other seller-unfriendly transfer system.

But really, if you want the money tonight, you'll pay for it.

Otherwise, you can wait 2 or 3 days for the PMO to arrive in the mail.


Of course, you could go one better and simply avoid PayPal and only transfer funds via Postal Money Orders or wire services. That's what I do - I don't accept or use PayPal anymore.

NuWishA wrote:Doesn't paypal have something in their policy about it violating the policy to demand the buyer pay the paypal fee?

Morally I don't see a problem with it, unless you tacked it on as a suprise at the end.

I'd say the best way to do it is to factor in the paypal fee in the price you want to get for your items.

I believe Visa and Mastercard have similar policies regarding passing on the merchant fees to the customer. A customer being charged a POS fee is a "no no" in their eyes.

nightshade_eyes wrote:

NuWishA wrote:Doesn't paypal have something in their policy about it violating the policy to demand the buyer pay the paypal fee?

Morally I don't see a problem with it, unless you tacked it on as a suprise at the end.

I'd say the best way to do it is to factor in the paypal fee in the price you want to get for your items.

I believe Visa and Mastercard have similar policies regarding passing on the merchant fees to the customer. A customer being charged a POS fee is a "no no" in their eyes.

And that is why many merchants offer a cash "discount" or separate cash and credit prices (remember when all of the gas stations did this?).