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OK, all I've ever played is Games Workshop products for the most part, however, I wouldn't mind trimming down the GW collection and looking for some other outlet/game to play, as lets face it, GW can get pretty boring after a while as it seems nothing ever really changes, and when it does, it's nearly always for the worse (rules wise, games development wise)

I looked forward to the Ork codex release for years, and then after 10 years of the old codex (which was still great) this one has more type errors and blatant misprints than any codex, and quite possibly ALL codexes ever combined. Unacceptable in my opinion. That is ridiculous. Therefore, I am considering starting to ween off GW and branch out into something else........

Therein lies the $20,000 question.........which other games do you guys enjoy and why? Can be for cost reasons, model reasons, background, whatever.......I just want other options.

I enjoy complex/"realistic" rules myself, and GW seems to be dumbing everything down to a 12 year old's level of understanding. Therefore, a game system with a little more meat to it would be to my liking as well.

So go ahead, give me your 2 cents on other games and why you like them, and why they may or may not even be superior to GW games.

Erik

Personally, I'm a big fan of Rackham's Confrontation 3.5 and Excelsior's Warzone.

It's skirmish level, which is a nice change from WHFB, and the figures are some of the most detailed and characterful you'll find anywhere. The rules are complex, but all use one basic mechanic, so there's a lot of depth and variety in the game, but it's still easy to learn and pick up.

I know there's a new edition of this game coming out soon, and the minis are slowly being shifted to pre-painted plastics, but the fact that you can play the game with about 15-40 models, depending on the force you select, means that you can play the older version and not worry too much about availability of figures.

There's also a really great expansion rulebook for it called Dogs of War. It's kind of a scenario-driven narrative-heavy version of the game. It focuses on a Game Master designing scenarios and plotlines through which your warband and its leader can advance, gaining skills, experience and equipment as they go. Think of it as the halfway point between D&D and Mordheim.

For sci-fi, I think the best tabletop mini game ever made is Warzone. It was re-printed a few years back by Excelsior Games, and if you can get that book, called Ultimate Warzone, you should check it out. This game is awesome, the rules are really streamlined and offer a lot of options in terms of tactics, but unfortunately most of the minis are really awful looking. Chunky & stiff looking, but if you're into converting, it's not hard to put together a presentable force.

The game's setting rocks! Kind of a near-future, dark, cyberpunk setting, where mega-corporations run everything and are competing for control. There are great evil forces and crusading holy good guy armies too. It reminds me of RPGs like Shadowrun or Kult, but with a bit more sci-fi thrown in.

Warzone's gameplay is great, because play alternates between sides on a unit-by-unit basis, so for example; I take actions with one unit, then you take actions with one unit, then i go again.... so on and so on, until every unit has moved/shot/whatever. Then the next turn begins. That system really gets rid of the main thing that bothers me about GW games, the whole "All my guys go, then all your guys go" system.

Every model in the game has a number of Actions they can carry out per activation, and instead of just being limited to moving, shooting, or assaulting, there's a lot more options; they can hide, spot for another model to increase their chance of hitting, aim before shooting, go into overwatch, duck behind cover, all sorts of things. Each individual guy in a squad feels like he matters in that system, so it's more fun, IMHO, than just having Guardsmen 1 through 9 fire their lasguns, while Guardsman 10 fires his plasma gun.

You can actually view/download their rulebook at http://www.mutantpedia.com/Warzone.html under "Ultimate Warzone"

So, those would be my suggestions. Being older games, it might take a little effort to find opponents, but you won't be disappointed if you can get a group together.

So, those would be my suggestions. Being older games, it might take a little effort to find opponents, but you won't be disappointed if you can get a group together.

You know, Erik...
That brings up a good point.

Do you have a group who's switching with you, or are you on your own.

Personally, I didn't care too much for Warzone the few times I played it (I used to commission paint armies for their version of an outrider when I lived in VA). Some of the models were really cool. basically, the more common the choice, the less the quality. The Bio-Giant, for example, was awesome, IMO.
The "you go, I go" approach was nice, though.

Anyway... back on point...

Warzone is a rarely played game in comparison. if you're switching games, it'd be in your best interest to pick a game (or games) that are more mainstream (for wargames, anyway), so that you have a better chance to find a group.

Personally, I don't have time for anything else, so it wold be unwise for me to suggest any. I just wanted to ask that question re; individual or group so that others who respond would know if it was worth mentioning a particular game.

Two more questions:

1) Sci-Fi only or Sci-Fi AND fantasy?
2) You say you're into "realism" in the games. Interested in Historical gaming? I understand that their rules tend to be among the most complex AND realistic.



Eric

Void 1.1 is a possiblilty for you. It's a small SF game (normally 500-1000 pts). It is I move, you move, I shoot, you shoot, I assault, you assault. The rules have very good flow, and the games are very quick when compared to a 40K game of the same point cost. In the same vein, Urban War and Metropolis are offered using the same fluff, as skirmish and super-skirmish games with the same Background as Void 1.1.

Warmachine and Hordes are good games, but I'm not as familiar with gane mechanics. Wargods of Aegyptus looks interesting, but as before, I'm not familiar.

What about Mordheim or Necromunda? Still GW, but completely different rulesets.

Lately, I've been playing Deadlands: Great Rail Wars. Cowboys and Indians (and Walking Dead and Samurai and all manner of "Wild, Wild West kind of stuff). Very cool game. and much different mechanics (almost roleplaying).

What about Mordheim or Necromunda? Still GW, but completely different rulesets.

I would add GorkaMorka to your stellar suggestions. Those three are a much needed deportation from the large squad/unit/army battles and more into skirmish/rpg play. Plus GorkaMorka has more detailed/advanced vehicle rules than 40k that adds another dimension left out with each successive 40k rulebook release.

MagickalMemories wrote:

So, those would be my suggestions. Being older games, it might take a little effort to find opponents, but you won't be disappointed if you can get a group together.

You know, Erik...
That brings up a good point.

Do you have a group who's switching with you, or are you on your own.

Eric

Just looking for options, not with a group. I rarely get to play anymore anyway, so on the rare few times I DO get to play, I want to get the most out of it.

I have to travel an hour away to play Warhammer as it is, however there's a smaller shop in my town that doesn't cater to GW, but does cater to the other "niche" games, so in all actuallity, it may be easier to find new players with new games here locally. I know for one they stock Warmachine/Hordes, and I'm sure some others wouldnt be terrbily hard to find either......

Erik

MagickalMemories wrote:Two more questions:

1) Sci-Fi only or Sci-Fi AND fantasy?
2) You say you're into "realism" in the games. Interested in Historical gaming? I understand that their rules tend to be among the most complex AND realistic.

Eric

Didn't catch that last part. Basically, anything. I don't care. I've done the other GW spin offs, GorkaMorka, Necromunda, Blood Bowl. While all fun, they're still "GW"

I have to say, I absolutely loved Necromunda, and still do, but it has no following that I know of here. People would rather play full out games of 40K

Erik

specs.esd wrote:

What about Mordheim or Necromunda? Still GW, but completely different rulesets.

I would add GorkaMorka to your stellar suggestions. Those three are a much needed deportation from the large squad/unit/army battles and more into skirmish/rpg play. Plus GorkaMorka has more detailed/advanced vehicle rules than 40k that adds another dimension left out with each successive 40k rulebook release.

Agreed, see ever since 2nd edition, which Necromunda is, or at least was (haven't seen the "new" rules for it since it's re-release), based off the 2nd edition rules, which I enjoyed.

See, was 2nd edition a little too long, a little too clunky? Yeah, at times, but gosh darn was it fun. Lots of little rules, modifiers, things to make the game interesting, even in the "I go, you go" format.

Little things I miss so much like realistic/detalied vehicle damage tables, AP depending on the S of the weapon, not just "this melta gun/lascannon/plasma gun auto penetrates anything" crap. Things like Overwatch.........oh how I miss overwatch........

I just don't like the way the rules are headed. They're just too dumbed down, changed way too often, and hardly ever for the better. Now with a rumored 4.5/5th edition due out this year, what's next? I roll a die, you roll a die and whoever rolls highest 2 out of 3 wins?? But by all these pretty new models!! Oh wait, this isn't a GW rant......

I don't care about the pretty pretty minis anymore. I miss tactics!! I just want something that's fun and doesn't boil down to who can roll more dice........

Erik

Bah, double post......

Erik

Bah, triple post

Erik

I just don't like the way the rules are headed. They're just too dumbed down, changed way too often, and hardly ever for the better. Now with a rumored 4.5/5th edition due out this year, what's next? I roll a die, you roll a die and whoever rolls highest 2 out of 3 wins?? But by all these pretty new models!! Oh wait, this isn't a GW rant......

A while back, and sadly i do not remember where. I thought i remember reading something that the 4.5 release isn't a rules upgrade, but more like 40k advanced rules. As to what this means I'm not sure. But as many of you can agree alot of the newer released codexs are favoring the 2nd ed style and format again. Are they doing this intentionally to have a40k basic and a40k advanced?
Not sure, I'm gonna go alook around again to see if i canot find that dang thread.

Have you tried INFINITY Erik? you can download the army books and the rules free their website, most of the warbands are composed by 10 miniatures so it doesn´t become too expensive to start, the game mechanics is very tough, doesn´t allow deployment mistakes, the game is also fun and very fun to play, you could also check their international forum to see any gaming groups near you.

npd_bigdaddy wrote: I know for one they stock Warmachine/Hordes, and I'm sure some others wouldnt be terrbily hard to find either......

I realize that I'm new here, but I would like to chime in my support of Hordes/Warmachine. I played GW products for ~16 years up until a couple of years ago when I got a game of Warmachine in. The game had everything I missed about the old Warhammer 40K (Rogue Trader edition) but played much faster than 40K ever has. From that day forward I haven't touched my GW stuff and I really can't see a time when I will again. The game is fantastic and I would gush a little more, but I don't want to risk appearing to be too much of a fan boy.

Give it a shot. Enjoy the feeling of picking up your opponent's models and throwing them at his leader. Slam him around and headbutt him to the ground before pummeling him. Better yet, headlock a warjack and then start punching it in the face. Good times!

Personally, I would pick up Hordes in favor of Warmachine. While a lot of people in my local group disagree with me, I like the Hordes game a lot more since it seems to play much faster. The two systems are compatible, so you don't lose out either way.

I've always loved Battletech, but gameplay is too cumbersome for me. I can highly recommend that you at least explore Heavy Gear- the new miniatures are awesome and I hear good things about the rules. The only drawback is that the falling dollar has driven up prices (Dream Pod 9 simply started charging the Canadian rates for everyone.) I personally love the settings, stories, rule mechanics, and roleplaying and storytelling capabilities. Look into it and if you like it, see if you can get other people interested as well.

Heavy gear was my game of choice when Btech first died and was yet to be resurrected. Nice storyline, decent factions, and really nice models.
Fairly decent rulesets as well