Bartertown.com

I am having a bit of a problem with a fellow trader. I am not going to name names, as I do not see it fit at this time. I do not wish to cause any trouble, I am only trying to see what the rest of my fellow b-town traders feel about this situation. And hopefully this trader I am having the problem with and I can come to an agreement.

Trader and I made a deal that we both agreed upon. He sent me his shipping address, and though his feedback was lower than mine, I could see that he was a veteran trader with perfect feedback of over 100, so I wasnt worried. And so I sent his items out in good faith. I mean, after all, with feedback like that, you gotta be a good trader (not one to back out of a deal).

After I ship them, he PM's me, and says he would like to back out as he no longer really needs the items he traded for. I explain to him that I have already sent his items and that we had already agreed to the deal.

So he reply's that it is fine, and he will box up my stuff and ship it out the following day or the day after.

Today I saw him in the chat room and he tells me that he was surprised and dissapointed with what he received. And that he expected the items to be new on sprue. I reminded him that I had told him of the condtion of the items before and that my ad also stated that the items were not new. Infact, it stated that they were 'used'.

He said he still did not want them, and that he wanted to send them back to me, and that he no longer felt they were worth the deal we had agreed to.

I explained to him that it is not my fault that he thought he was getting something new on sprue.

Reader: If I purchased an item from you that you stated was used, and I agreed to purchase it anyway, but I for some reason expected it to be brand new when I got it, would you not still feel it only fair that I pay for said item?
I would not expect my trade partner to make good on something that is my fault, would you? I may ask them to let me out of the deal, but if they don't want to let me out of the deal, then to me, a deal is a deal. I made it, I have to keep it. Right?

And I told him that I have kept all the messages between he and I, and that I would be willing to take this up with the bartertown moderators. Though, because they are very busy people with lives of their own, and this trader and I are both veteran traders, it would be ashame for us to do so. We should be able to stick to our agreements as veteran traders with perfect feedback should.

Breaking deals is something I (though sadly) have almost come to expect from noobie traders. Not from a veteran trader with over 100 perfect feedback.

So, that said, he did not want to take the case to the moderators if possible. And asked if we could make alter the deal to accomodate a quicker resolve of the matter.

And although I feel this is unfair to myself, and unprofessional as a trader, I agreed to do so, because I felt bad for him that he was not happy with the deal.

SO, I took a LOT of the stuff off that I was expecting from our agreement/deal.

Thus far I have not heard back from him. And he left the chatroom without reply.

Thoughts? Advice? Agree? Dissagree? Is a deal a deal and it should be kept? Or is bartertown not a place that we should make deals and keep them?

[EDIT] 8/2/07 - The trader has admirably agreed to complete this trasnaction that we agreed to and has sent me his end of the deal. He even went as far as to buy a BRAND NEW TAU EMPIRE codex to send me! (because the one we had traded for couldnt be found) I recieved the package today and am very pleased. I harbor no hard feelings, and knowing that this was a simple mistake (we ALL make mistakes) and not something typical of this trader, I would happily trade with him again.

Thank you all for your input, I am hoping this thread will cause us all to be more careful when making trades, and hopefully help to make bartertown a safer place to do buisness.

Oh, and again, this is not a matter of "I said, he said". I have kept all the pm's between us, and I also copied and saved the Chat Log.

To be honest, I wouldn't take anything off the trade and I would expect him to honor up to the deal that was originally made. If your ad clearly says items were "used" and not "new on sprue", then you are not in the wrong. He or she needs to learn to read a bit better.


Kevin

Usually when I set up trades, I clearly give the status of the items and what our expectations are for shipping. Then that person and I state that this is a set trade, and we go forth with it.

Then both parties should keep their end of the bargin at the very least.

lord nagash is right, but the truth is, no one on bartertown signs up to a writen deal, so they can back out of deal at anytime, although it is a poor excuse saything that they werent on sprue when u told him they were used, used to me means built and possibly painted!

anyway i hope u get this sorted out, shame it has happened, and from such a vetern

theres my 2 cents

I think once a deal is made,and items are sent(when you said you would send them) and are in the condition you described them to be,then the deal is binding...
I have miss read threads on ebay and thought i was getting something new only to find the item wasn't what i thought it to be,on rereading the ebay sale i saw it was myself that failed to read the description,then i had no other choice but to give positive feedback.
You lived up to your end of the bargin,i would expect the other party to do the same

Cheers
Peace

I'd say the trade must go on, BUT I'm in the exact same situation as you except I'm dealing with a higher reputatable trader and he flaked on me for one or two months and finally, hes returning my stuff back.

I thnk you are right, BUT you can only do so much... when the opposition just outright refuses to do anything and ends up in a bad situation.

I'd ask first for your items back, then inform the staff at btown about the situation then leave a few negative ratings, and that will blacklist the individual for doing something they didn't carry out with.

Well I think the dude should have stuck to the deal. But if he changed his mind, you can't force him to regretably. Butif he does back out I think he should send back the items to greatwolf AND pay him back for the shipping. That way nothing was totally wasted other than a little bit of time.. Otherwise, I'd set up a bad trader report, and get it known that this guy will waste your time and money!

darkchampion wrote:Well I think the dude should have stuck to the deal. But if he changed his mind, you can't force him to regretably. Butif he does back out I think he should send back the items to greatwolf AND pay him back for the shipping. That way nothing was totally wasted other than a little bit of time.. Otherwise, I'd set up a bad trader report, and get it known that this guy will waste your time and money!

I agree. And to be clear. He should send everything back, PAY your intial shipping, and PAY for the shipping back of his stuff.

The above is only true if you sent the person ALL pertinent information. Meaning eidtion, condtion, model manufacturerer (if relivant), etc. I do have to say that "used" is a fairly vague description that can have any number of meanings. I am instituting a new personal policy. If I don't get exactly what I THINK I am getting negative feedback will be given.

If you met the above and the person doesn't pay for everything I think neg feedback is called for. I have learned this the hard way. I have one negative feedback because I did not reimburse the person the price of shipping after backing out of a trade. At first I didn't think it was deserved but after having similar situations happen to me multiple times the cost has added up. Now that negative feedback serves like a burn that reminds me not to play with fire.

I don't really know what to say about this as I haven't seen the pms where you explained the condition of your stuff to the other side, provided you were crystal clear about condition. If you were then I honestly think that the other trader needs to man up and complete his side.

It's a little disconcerting when you have an agreed upon deal, which essentially is a voidable contract via PM's that is binding once one side accepts the terms and sends the items. Now sale of goods legislation allows escape room if the goods are not "merchantable" or not accoeding to description. The real problem is that legal action is not really an option as the likely size of the trade precludes throwing good money after bad.

As to cutting him a bit of a deal as a result of meeting in chat, I've got to say you are behaving admirably in the face of a reneging "wheedler". I feel the other side has "buyer's remorse" and simply is trying to get more for less which is borderline unethical and at a minimum, providing the deal gets finalized is a "neutral" with an explanation. If he backs out completely, and doesn't cover your shipping costs I'd leave a negative as fair warning to others.

~Cory

Something I should clearify.

I reminded him today that we had discussed the condition of the items. And he did not deny this. He had asked me of their condition and I told him. And as I stated above, in the ad itself it was stated as USED. So it was definitely not NEW ON SPRUE. Also, anyone who has seen my ads knows that I state when things are New On Sprue or New In Blister, etc.

I thank you all for your comments, and I am hoping that after showing him this thread, he too will agree to keep the deal that he and I agreed upon, or at least to the alternate deal I gave him with less items for me.

If not, then as Orclord has advised me, I will have to take this to the moderators.

Orclord also feels that the trader should keep up with the deal. And though he advises I take this directly to the moderators, (and he is probably right) I want to give this guy a chance to do what's right.

He is a good trader according to his feedback, and we had no problems making the deal. So I am hoping he will come around.

Well

whoever the dude is ,since it was described exactly as he received it .His perception is wrong.Well whoever the dude is ,man just get this deal done and over with.. shake hands dude.

cheers

The trader in question needs to return the items, as well as paying to ship back and to reimburse your shipping. A trade was agreed upon and, as we've discussed here before (even though I don't totally agree with it), if the TiQ doesn't do those things, you are free to leave negative feedback.

Fight to get your originally agreed upon deal.
If he's unwilling, then I'd say to get your WHOLE lot back, as well as the shipping it cost you to send it.
That's total BS, man.

Whatever you agree upon, when the deal is complete, press for the positive ref you deserve, then he gets a negative.

If he doesn't want to leave the ref forst... then leave him the negative, anyway. At best, you don't get any ref's. At worst, he leaves you an undeserved negative and Linrandir and TrademasterAdam boot his @$$ off of BTown (and remove your negative).


Eric

I would like to know, but you don't have to tell, did you explain what "used" means to this trader? I've received bits that were new on sprue, but were primed black, so they could be considered used.

If I missed the part where you explained exactly what it was, then I apologize in advance.

As long as the other is willing to pay the cost of shipping to their place and back to yours I see no issue here. Unfortunately you are out of your time. Just put them on your list of people not to trade with.