Bartertown.com

I've been toying with the idea of starting a store in the North Boston area. I would like to hear what the folks here at bartertown have to give me for advice, do's and donts', etc.

I'm especially curious what works for you and would inspire you to not only game in my store, but pay somewhere near retail for minis, be they GW, confrontation or local customs.

Curiousity may bankrupt the Cat

*edited* - Due to a number of recent events:

1). due to this post, someone on the site who knows the hobby shop owner pointed it out to him.

2). because of #1, the shop owner and I had a very good, informative conversation where both of us spoke about how we felt on the situation, and both sides were heard fairly. While we may not agree with each other on everything that was put in my original post, he and I have decided to try and treat this like it is water under the bridge, and are going to put this whole fiasco behind us.

3). I want to say thank you to the person(s) who made that phone call. With out that, I doubt I would have had a chance to talk to the shop owner so candidly about the situation, and things would have likely remained unresolved. I think I have an idea who it was, but I am not going to contact that person, or state names etc... as ultimately this is behind us.

4). The one thing that really sucks about this post, is that while I really feel(felt) the way I did when I posted this, things have amazingly been changing since after it. Embarrassingly enough, my shop owner has started to be the "coolest guy ever" as I had originally posted that he was when I first met him. I am sad, embarrassed, angry at myself for not speaking to him directly in the first place, but that is life, and that is how we learn. We make mistakes. I have definetly learned a lesson here.

5). Somewhat tongue in cheek, I noticed that there were a few oddball edits to my OP. The first being that words that were used to describe myself were edited, but a blatant name calling on my part was not edited, and allowed to remain unedited. More than anything I found it funny, I know how these PhPBB boards are with their word filters, so... meh. Oh well.

Finally, I wanted to apologize again. I doubt this post will get moved to the top, in fact I hope it doesn't, but if anyone else reads it, please just skip this over.

Thanks,
Ed

As for the OP (and the real point of my post), Everything Sleepy here said about how to run a business is spot on.
Don't do it if you plan on making more than a median 5 figure income (and THAT is if you are REALLY on the hustle).

Use all tools available to you, too (sell on here, on ebay and in your B&M store). If there is competition in your area, sell at 10% off. You'd be amazed at what a big deal that seems like to people.


Eric

My one word of advice is DIVERSIFY.

The biggest of the local game stores relies almost completely on GW stuff, and the scuttlebut is that he's sweating bullets because GW is making overtures of opening up their own store and putting him out of business by soaking up the market that he's created for them. Rumors still, but from different and pretty reliable sources.

Definitely listen to what people want, and do what you can to generate a fun atmosphere. Naturally, build up a stock of good gaming tables and scenery. Try and get a good display case for the show-offs to keep their armies (and charge 'em rent to do it!)

My favorite thing in the local shop is the used section. People trade in books and minis by the buttload for either cash or store credit, and it's a great way to get random minis and OOP printed material (or not so OOP; I'm surprised at what I find sometimes.) Having been a die-hard bartertowner has not ruined me for B&M for that very reason: I've easily spent several hundred dollars in the used section of that shop- it's pathetically easy for me to stop in every couple of weeks, rummage around, find some cool stuff, and throw down $25, and it adds up startlingly fast. If you can, do that. Take it from me, it works.

Oh, and naturally you've got to have a decent selection of more conventional games- bring in some regular folks and try and convert them and/or their kids to wargaming or whatever. Weekend workshops are great if you can advertise and bring bodies in!

I bet you could keep a business afloat well enough. If the market's weak, it can be strengthened. I daresay it'll be a lot of work, but if you can make it fun, then who cares?

Ok business-school chyming in:

1) Everything said above is great, especailly some personal stories shared by Sleepy the SleepTech that outed him from certain stores. Keep in mind that You're not just selling a product, you're selling an experience. People can get their gaming stuff online for a lot cheaper than you can sell them. You want to create a friendly atmosphere where gamers feel welcome and at home. This means open gaming tables, friendly advice, regular events, workshops (invite the best painter you know to come in and hold a painting workshop in exchange for some store credit.)

2) Can you really afford this? Again, this has been mentioned before. Gaming stores don't really turn a huge profit. Most people who go there will not necessarily buy something. GW has a $30,000 minimum buy-in of their products that you MUST hold in store initially (at least in Canada that I know of) an each time they raise their prices, which is fairly regular, you're forced to choose to either follow suit or cut into your profit margins. Can you afford the lease? Can you afford the time? (Gaming stores take a LOT of time and effort to run)

3) Location location location: Are there any gaming stores already in your area? Are there any GW's around? Are there a lot of malls and movie theatres and indirect competitors. Are there hobby stores that could supplement your offerings? Are you close enough to residential areas that people are willing to drive to you?

4) Business strategy: This basically sums up your whole business. How are you going to compete with industry competitors and substitute products? How are you going to deal with suppliers and buyers? What's your overall goal and how are you going to achieve it? How are you going to differentiate yourself? By offering rare products that noone else does? By offering variety? Or are you going to take a cost advantage approach and try to undercut the competition? Check out some of Michael Porter's work on the internet. He gives very basic, understandable analyses of business strategy.

5) Marketing: How are people going to find out about your store? Word of mouth? Advertising in local newspapers? Website? Are you going to offer online shopping? eBay store?

A gaming store, as fun a prospect as it sounds, is still a business. Most store owners I've met haven't really thought through the business side of it and enter into the business with more than a hint of naive idealism. Not to say they can't run greate stores and make a ton of cash. But business knowhow is never going to hurt you.

I would advise, if you do plan on going through with this, to hire a consultant for a few hundred bucks and talk about your business and your goals. I've done several marketing/consulting plans for small businesses as a part of a consulting group and each time they've come away with at least some sort of benefit and knowledge as well as a better understanding of the economic implications of their store. I guaruntee you it will be the best money you spend.

All the best

E

You guys are certainly giving me some great advice and ideas.

Just to correct/clarify a couple points:

GWs initial buy-in is about $2000 for their "top 50" products. This is based off the US product brochure i have sitting here on my desk They require you to stock these products and will allow reorders at NO MINIMUM if you have the "top 50" in stock at all times. These items are box sets ONLY, no paint, no boosters(blisters), no brushes and no display racks.

I have an MBA with a focus in marketing and (the 'e' word that means starting small businesses). This is why I'm truly seeking a way to make this fun, profitable and useful to the community. You guys are both consumers and producers for the various hobbies and I need to know how to tap those local to me in Boston and those of you in Nevada (thanks Sleepy!).

Next 2 things:
those of you with kids, is there something that would be of great fun to the kiddies for the amount of time it would take you to play a game?

how about running the shop more like a club? i.e. you pay a membership fee every month and it guarentees certain things. my initial thought was percentage off all merchandise, secure storage of your miniatures, workshops, etc.

well let me tell you something about how i got started and gw didnt force me to buy anything

i used some existing stock from a store that was going out of business that by itself didnt force me to buy in to anything from gw they set up my account and im in business

so i wont say you have to do anything or buy a set amount they will suggest sure but you dont have to do anything

few suggestions things to think of

location.. is it a good one will you get foot traffic is it easily accesible?
price... is it something you can afford
Operating costs.... do you have enough capital to let the store run for at least 6 months before you see a profit... and it will be 6 months i know...

are you running it by yourself.... get someone you can trust to help... trust me you need that i made that mistake and i have paid the price for it as of late

are you willing to take some abuse from the people who game? it happens in any store... youll get people who bad mouth you because you dont bend over and smooch their butt

i had a guy come in and threaten to kill me, because a lgs closed and i was blamed for it.... loooooong story

are you good with kids

can you provide drinks and snacks for your customers.. may sound stupid but its not... i make enough in selling drinks every month to cover the light bill alone

if you want to discuss some shop options go to my web site the number is there give me a call and we can discuss things

hope this helps
Robert

Hmm...that second one sounds like it might hold promise, but it'll be a bit of work to make it effective. At my old job we sold memberships to a videogaming club, with 10% discount on game purchases (which were rarely used because people'd just Bit-Torrent most of their new games,) some other online stuff (which was mostly crap,) and the promise of regular tournaments (of which we had exactly one.) Give it a lot of thought and planning before deciding, and run through some scenarios.

As for the kiddles, get them involved too! Find some staffers that would work well with them, and have their own games running, be they whatever they may.

Though I've never played anything, I observe a lot while rummaging through the Used Bin, and I gotta say that you really have to make sure that the desired atmosphere is cultivated. Try to get people to have fun for its own sake, and keep the cheaters and rule nazis to a minimum, not so much by giving them the boot, but by harboring a general sentiment in which they will not thrive. Fun is fun, nit-picking and winning just to win are not. Oh, and try to make sure your patrons understand the basic principles of general hygiene. That keeps the chicks away, and nothing livens up a store like some not-entirely-unattractive females; gives the place a little color and class. No joke.

Something to watch out for is shoplifters. You shouldnt be suspicious of everyone but it does happen more often than people think.

I work at a small game store owned by reaper and in our store the way the aisles are layed out there a lots of blind spots. Needless to say weve had quiet a few shoplifters. So my advice is to make sure the layout of your store is layed out the best way for you to run your store.

Also keep your store neat and clean. My local game store where i game isnt the neatest but its an independent store. Where i work is in a mall so we have to keep it cleaned and straightened at all times. If costomers come in and it looks really trashy, they may get a bad impression of your business and not come back.

Also remember not to be an asshat.

And if you have a staffer who wants to work with kids, make sure he isn't trying to date the kids. The local store had a big youngbloods program and the store was full several nights a week and lost all the kids because the guy running the program got arrested for some rather.. indecent things he did outside of the store.

So uh.. background checks and paying some damn attention to your employees is a must... Or at least the second one.

As for Jay's store, its nice but has no gaming space. The other store where everyone games is getting the fallout from the GW store closing and is full on minature wargaming night.. up until that it had no one due in part to the management being so off-putting. It took some of the long time regulars telling the guy to start acting like he cares or he'll end up out of business.

So care about the store, don't let employees run the store for you without paying attention, and if you ever stop caring about the place it might mean you should get rid of it.

Another store that closed locally was a nicer store, cleaner and the owner played the games, but he would only sell stuff he played. He would turn away all the kids wanting pokemon and yugioh. He also didn't want to compete with the other store in the area (that i've been talking about) but tried to copy the guy with his set up. It died because he had alot of debt going into it, and spent any money he got from the store on credit card debt instead of putting it back into the store. He also bought three computers and a ps2 with lots of games. At first he let people pay for free, then tried to charge them.. which ended up just sucking away his money since no one wanted to pay for waht they got to do for free.

He also refused any help, a couple that hated the other store and wanted this guy's store to succeed kept him funded for a few months by just buying random things themselves. They even restocked his drinks and snacks for him. Thats another thing, if you have a snack machine and/or drinks.. you might want to try for a policy about outside food and drink. Some of the people going there just laughed at him when he asked them not to bring stuff like 2 liters and 6 packs in.

He refused any free advertising, the couple from before was going to get him featured in the Tennessean (which is a big paper here in.. you guessed it, TN) in the local section in a story about small businesses, but the guy flat out refused. He relied on the word of mouth of his friends. His friends were all broke and the same people that would bring in their own food and drinks and laugh when he tried to get them to stop.


I've seen alot of bad business decisions in game stores and game companies (the latter being the insanity of GW and the death of my love for 40k) and hence my long rant.


I also think its sad that words are getting censored that aren't really bad words.

As a customer there's nothing I like more than damn good customer support. If something goes sour try and remain civil about it. The Game Preserve in town has to wait quite a while on bits orders. The first time I ever ordered bits from them it took over a month. I was happy about it and when in to talk with them. Come to find out they have to reach a minimum. I still shop there once and a while. I've only stopped going there because I can get used stuff on here and other things for cheaper.

Another thing. If you make any sort of mistake, fess up to it. Most people are understanding and only need an appology to feel ok about the situation.

Any idea when your store could be up and running? I like going to different gaming store to see what they offer and I'll be around boston in mid march.

Sleepy the SleepTech wrote:Well, the biggest frustration at our local shop is the Owner is also the leader of his own gaming group...

I didn't know if I was reading about a store or reading a Dawson's Creek episode, that was some incredible drama there.


1. Start small. Do like Drop Zone said and get an online store only, eBay store or we can hook you up with an online store here at Bartertown for much less than you would expect. I'll send you the link if you PM me to see what we can do. I think (and if Linrandir was here, he would yell at me for talking out of turn) it is $15? (or $10) a month for hosting with us (that includes server space, webmail, osCommerce shopping cart) you'll need to buy a domain name (sellmygwstuff.com, yahoo has them for $20/year) and we ask that you advertise with Bartertown for $99/quarter. If you add Credit cards, I think that's an extra $20/year but otherwise you're Paypal ready. So for under $750/year, you've got a pretty professional looking store with advertising. We handle all of the hard techie crap, all you need to do is point and click and put in prices, fill orders, super-easy stuff.

** Edit: We start the clock and start charging you once the store is fully operational. We understand that it might take 3 months to input all of your store inventory.

2. DO THE MATH, rely on your MBA. Go to a local game store and watch the register. Heck, if you're really serious, tell them you want to work for them on weekends or something. See how many people go through the door, how much per sale average and how much in a day. Find a stupid store clerk who is getting paid $4.50 an hour in store credit and grill him for store sales in trade for a Subway sammich (get him a foot long with chips if he is a big guy). I know of one store where the guy is making fat bank and it is a full time job with full time employees. I know of a lot of poor stores around where the owner is making $30,000 a year or some such. If you want that each year (and it is a decent salary with a fun job), more power to you. But if you want to rake in $100,000 in your pocket profit and sit out on the beach drinking Tequila, figure out how many people have to walk through the door and drop down some metallic covered crack for you to get it.

3. Be prepared to invest in crap you hate. I see a lot of stores which are GW only or CCG only or Historicals only. Find out what's hot in the industry, drop down a fat chunk of cash for it AND play it AND paint it AND sell it. Just because you think Pokemon is for 8 year old girls does not mean that you shouldn't be selling a ton of it and organizing Pokemon or Heroclix or D&D or crap you don't want to do. The store which is fat with cash has a large staff who are well versed and go to conventions and actively search for the latest and greatest and when it comes out, they jump all over it. They had the hugest Flames of War display before most stores had heard of it.

4. Buy out an existing store. Got any in the area which are about ready to go or just aren't making it? I live in Tulsa and I know of a handful of similar shops where I'm pretty sure you could either buy the shop or a piece of the shop. At least this way you've got a start on it.


Good luck,

TrademasterAdam

NuWishA wrote:I also think its sad that words are getting censored that aren't really bad words.

We would have people use those words inappropriately and so we decided to censor them to try and keep on-topic to gaming. You are right, those are not bad words but they can be used in a hateful manner.

TrademasterAdam

Hahaha... yeah I hate my hobby shop *tear*. Oh well.Either I play with a highly selective group of people at my home, pay to play people who arent allowed at my hobby shop (and for good reason) or I suck it up and just support the local shop minimally.

I hate drama, it may not seem like it, but I really really do.

My advice is to diversify - DO NOT rely solely on GW! I say this because I have a feeling that GW is going to fall very hard in the next few years. Their profits have been in steady decline, their debt is skyrocketing, their prices are rising, a lot of their recent decisions/rules have upset many longtimers, and they are becoming more about $$$ then a good game (did you knwo that they're releasing 4 separate codcies for Chaos and rewriting the SM codex this year? Craziness!).

There are a LOT of very good small companies out there who - if they had more publicity and advertising - would be hugely successful. Of the top of my head, GZG, Freebooter, Hasslefree. And others that could give GW a run for their money - Rackham, IWM, Mongoose, Corvus Belli, etc. Do your homework about everything that's out there, stock it, and demo it and it could make a lot of money.

Also give people a place to game. The only games store in downtown Chicago doesn't have a gaming area - stupid!

Be cordial, be friendly (but also be willing to back off if someone's not interested in talking - this is why I don't go into GW stores anymore), be open to having a LOT of stupid questions (I see it all the time - "do you sell video games?") directed at you.