Bartertown.com

First of all let me preface this with a note to Alsiaie (and any other
Mods): this isn't a shot at any of you or me just trying to be a
smartass. I really would like to see some discussion on this subject.

For those of you that didn't read the original post here it is:
viewtopic.php?t=30628

Here are the things that I would like to know, please comment with any
and all opinions.
1) Could somebody please explain how it's possible to Threadjack a
thread by simply answering the question that it asked?? I simply don't
understand and would sincerely like to know. Here's the rule in
question:
"Rule #4: Do not hijack other people's threads.
If you want to talk trade with someone who has posted a response to a
third party's thread, take it to email, Private Message (PM) or start
your own thread.
Furthermore, since it needs clarification, do not attack people's ads
if you feel they don't conform to Bartertown rules (Please also note
rule #1). Notify a moderator, follow rule #0, and then let it go. We
will make the appropriate decision(s).
If you feel your thread has been hijacked or comments are going WAY off
topic, please contact me via PM and I will investigate."

Here's Rule #1 juat for the sake of completeness:
"Rule #1: These boards are to be used for TRADING PURPOSES ONLY (this
includes the Bad Trader Forums).
If you have a gripe with another poster, use the DISCUSSION boards.
Should you not use the discussion boards and start flaming or
cluttering up the boards with your irrelevant posts, your post will be
nuked and you will be warned. Disregard the warning and you will be
suspended. Do it again and you will be banned. "

2) That brings me to question #2...I thought after that thread a couple
of months ago we had a tacit agreement that the "Bartertown Information
and Messages" section was OK for any discussion subject (especially one
that poses questions about trade ads). Obviously the discussion area is
better suited for this purpose but as such a small percentage of users
actually go to the discussion side any debate over there is incomplete
at best. For what it's worth I still don't really know where this
specific topic should be posted since there isn't really an appropriate
section in the Discussion area for general trade discussion. We do now have this "Have Questions?" section on the trade side so that helps some.

3) Threadlocking:
Maybe it's just me but I think threadlocking should be a last resort
sort of affair that is used to end nastiness or abuse but otherwise
held in reserve. In this specific case I don't understand why the
original thread was locked, as all it did was solicit opinion on a
trade matter. The only problem I see with that thread is that is was
potentially in the wrong area but I do think it's a valid topic and
it's discussion would benefit the Bartertown community.

It was just the thread reposted with "why did [insert name here] get in trouble for it" at the beginning..

Al already said it was threadjacking. The point of the threadjacking rule is to keep people from making fun of, harrassing, or questioning someone publicly for their trade ad. Use the PM system for inquiries about prices (but don't use it for the first two things.. that will anger the pants.)

Also the last resort is sending the topic/thread to the nether. Threadlocking isn't that evil of a thing. It helps people stop talking about something thats not being constructive.

Threadlocking is fully approved and endorsed by The Pants.

MEDEVL wrote:

1) Could somebody please explain how it's possible to Threadjack a
thread by simply answering the question that it asked?? I simply don't
understand and would sincerely like to know. Here's the rule in
question:

If you go waaaaay back to the original thread posted by the trader, Magical Memories original reply was a simple question. "Are your prices listed retail value or selling value?" This is not thread jacking. However, further down there were complaints (key word) about the seller's prices. Then Magic decided to correct this thread jacker. Now the thread had officially been jacked. I closed it thereafter.

"Rule #4: Do not hijack other people's threads.
If you want to talk trade with someone who has posted a response to a
third party's thread, take it to email, Private Message (PM) or start
your own thread.
Furthermore, since it needs clarification, do not attack people's ads
if you feel they don't conform to Bartertown rules (Please also note
rule #1). Notify a moderator, follow rule #0, and then let it go. We
will make the appropriate decision(s).
If you feel your thread has been hijacked or comments are going WAY off
topic, please contact me via PM and I will investigate."

Here's Rule #1 juat for the sake of completeness:
"Rule #1: These boards are to be used for TRADING PURPOSES ONLY (this
includes the Bad Trader Forums).
If you have a gripe with another poster, use the DISCUSSION boards.
Should you not use the discussion boards and start flaming or
cluttering up the boards with your irrelevant posts, your post will be
nuked and you will be warned. Disregard the warning and you will be
suspended. Do it again and you will be banned. "

2) That brings me to question #2...I thought after that thread a couple
of months ago we had a tacit agreement that the "Bartertown Information
and Messages" section was OK for any discussion subject (especially one
that poses questions about trade ads). Obviously the discussion area is
better suited for this purpose but as such a small percentage of users
actually go to the discussion side any debate over there is incomplete
at best. For what it's worth I still don't really know where this
specific topic should be posted since there isn't really an appropriate
section in the Discussion area for general trade discussion. We do now have this "Have Questions?" section on the trade side so that helps some.

At that time, the Have Questions forum may not have been available. However megsdadlamarr, the author of the second thread on the Information forum directly copied the seller's thread. It included his full account name and thread contents. Essentially reposting the advertisement. Again on this new thread people continued the discussion that the original jackers started. Now I know that the new thread was aimed at the hijack itself (although there were some mentions of the trader's original prices) but that doesn't matter. Since the entire thread was "reposted" and further discussed, it was just a continuation of the previous hijacking. In no way shape or forum should ANY user discuss or scrutinize someone's trading practices publicly unless it is on the Bad Trader forum.

3) Threadlocking:
Maybe it's just me but I think threadlocking should be a last resort
sort of affair that is used to end nastiness or abuse but otherwise
held in reserve. In this specific case I don't understand why the
original thread was locked, as all it did was solicit opinion on a
trade matter. The only problem I see with that thread is that is was
potentially in the wrong area but I do think it's a valid topic and
it's discussion would benefit the Bartertown community.

Actually thread locking is for your safety and not ours. Even though I'm a moderator and lets say I posted a physical reply to tell everyone to shut up. Now I'm just feeding the fire. You can't begin to understand how stupid some people can get. I have personally seen permanent bans because users start picking fights when moderators step into a hijack. I don't care what it is about. So instead having the chance of further conflict by existing jackers or newcomers, moderators lock these types of threads so suspensions and bans don't become necessary.

We don't try to enforce the rules heavily to be mean. Way before the Watchmen and even before I became a mod, this entire forum was out of hand. Three single members moderated this entire site. Thanks to the several people on the ban list Bartertown had no choice but to step up and take action. Unfortunately even those who accidentally violate these rules feel the pressure. We have no choice but to treat violations in the same manner for everyone. We can't pick and choose who gets let off the hook for breaking the rules.

So, what it seems to me taht Al is saying... and, if so, I agree...

Is that it would have been okay to start a new thread about the old topi, asking what was wrong with what had been done, provided the OP did not repost the entirety of the text of the original ad.

Had they, for example, posted a small snippet of the ad (no names) with minis & prices, then my post, the following post, then my response... without naming names, it would have been okay to bring it up in a discussion in a new thread.

That seems to me to be fine.

Now, for those who feel it is acceptable to post comments IN the threads about prices... Respectfully, I have to say that i feel you are WAAAAY off base. Bartertown is a friendly site. We try to be a positive community for each other. Posts like this, pointing out flaws publicly, do not foster that feeling. Constructive criticism is STILL CRITICISM.
Someone seeing that ad might have been interested but, seeing the negative comment, might have become victim of the "Lemming Syndrome" and been convinced that the ad was not worth while.


Now, sure we disagree in our discussions on a regular basis... and we often poke major holes in each other's points during said discussions... but that is entirely different. It is a give & take of ideas... It is not a TRADE ad. The former is MEANT to be a hashing out of thoughts... the latter is not.
In my opinion, the only thing... the CLOSEST THING... to a negative comment that should be allowed in someone's trade ad is a Bad Trader warning.
If someone's posting ads, and they have unresolved Bad Trader Reports on them in the BTR forum, then a simple response to the ad (by a Watchman or above) pointing out that the poster has unresolved Bad Trade issues (with a link to the thread) should be acceptable.

Just my 2 Imperial Credits.

Eric